Western Knives tang stamps

[Beag1eGal]

Can any of you tell me when Western started putting the model number on their knives? I have an old 3 blade cattleman knives, Christmas Tree handles with the Western States in the arch, but no model number on it.
Thank you.

[edge213]

According to Price's Official Guide. Western started adding model numbers during the 1980s. Western States "arched" stamp used 1911-1950. Goins states 1911-1951.

[Beag1eGal]

Okay thank you so much. So from that I can say No Western States marked knives had model numbers?

[edge213]

That would be my understanding.

[Colonel26]

I'm going to have to disagree with that price guide. I have a few Western Boulder marked pocket knives (pre 1973 iirc) with pattern numbers on them.

[RalphAlsip]

In case helpful, here is a post that shows some bone handle stockman catalog pictures and pattern numbers.

http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 15#p339542

I didn't notice any pattern numbers on the pictures of the real knives posted in the thread.

[Colonel26]

Here is a bone handled Western Boulder folding hunter. Notice the tang stamp and the pattern number. Also a bone scaled 461 whittler with a pattern number, a bone handled 424 stockman, and a bone handled Western Boulder 901 with an extremely light pattern number etched on the tang. I have another 4 inch bone whittler that does not have a pattern number on the tang. Then I have several western boulder Delrin 742 stockman knives and all have a pattern number.

With western it seems that stamping or not stamping a pattern number was no set rule.

[Beag1eGal]

Okay, thank you all so much. Have a nice night

[Beag1eGal]

Have another question. When did Western stop using celluloid on their knife handles? I thought I had read most knife companies stopped along about 1960. I was trying to do some research about my latest purchase and all I could find on Westerns it says in the 1950's.

[zzyzzogeton]

I know this thread is a little old, but to answer some of the questions left hanging...

Western started putting model numbers on their knives in 1955.

Western replaced the use of celluloid (aka "composition plastic"), stag and bone (aka "bone stag") across all lines in 1961, when they started using Delrin.

NO ONE used Delrin commercially before 1961, because that was the earliest that Dupont produced a product that was stable enough for long term use. Delrin was developed during the 1950s, but the first versions were "lab successes/commercial duds".

From what I can determine, (and I am by no means an expert on the folding knives), Western used the same mark side tang stamp on folding knives before and after 1955.

For both folders and fixed, Western initially put the model numbers on the pile side tang/ricasso. Since there was no patent number stamped on the folders for additional year of manufacture speculation, the only difference between a 1951-1955 and a post-1955 Western folding knife was the absence or presence of the model number.

Prior to 1951, a folding knife will have a Western States stamp and no model number. No WS version ever had a model number on the knives themselves. The boxes NIGHT have had a model number on them, but I seen very few (like 4) 1946 to 1959 boxes and those were via pictures that only showed the top of the box, not all sides. Apparently, no one EVER kept their Western boxes back then.

The difference between the 1955-1960 folders and their post-1961 sisters was Delrin scales rather than stag, bone or celluloid.

Hope that all helps.

[Rebstock]

Taken from the book "The Knife Makers Who Went West" by Harvey Platts

[zzyzzogeton]

That is what is in the book. However, I believe 1954 is when Western started the process of adding model numbers to their knives and that 1955 is the first year they had them. Either that or someone at Western mis-remembered the start date 20 years later when they wrote the book.

In 40+ years of collecting Western knives, I have never seen corroborating evidence (advertisement, receipt or statement by the original purchaser) that a 1954 purchased knife ever had a model number on them.

1955 is the earliest evidence I have seen. That was an ad in a magazine from April or May 1955 that alluded to model numbers on their knives. That is why I use 1955 as the start year for "model numbers on Western's knives."

While TKMWWW is the "bible" of Western brand knife history, and I use it frequently in my collecting and identifying knives, there are several errors in the book. I am thankful that the book was produced, but it wasn't perfect. The tang stamp chart is an example. All the stamps listed were used at the times the book states, BUT .... there are stamps missing, some stamps were used at different times for fixed vs folder, etc..