Quality of Western Carbon Steel?

[pinnah]

How did the quality of Western's carbon steel stack up to their competitors during the day? e.g. Marbles, Shrade, Case, others?

How would is stack up to today's carbon or chrome-vanadium steels?

[garddogg56]

As good as any,I have a w39 and a L48ABG,GREAT for skining deer.

[deltaboy]

They take an edge as well as my pre 1973 Schrades .

[orvet]

I love carbon steel and most people know of my bias for Schrade knives, however, when it comes to outstanding carbon steel blades, it is my opinion that Western’s carbon steel was better than most other companies.
I don’t think any company makes a better carbon steel knife than those made by Western. Schrade Cut Co and some of the earlier Schrade Walden knives were close to the sharpness and edge retention that Western carbon steel is noted for, as well as some other companies such as Camillus (pre-1970 roughly).

It seems to me that the quality and edge retention of most American made carbon steel knives changed somewhere in the 1970s or early 1980s. Of course this is the time when stainless steel was beginning to dominate the cutlery marketplace. Perhaps steel companies somehow changed the formula for their carbon steel or perhaps the cutlery companies changed their heat treatment, but the sharpness and the edge retention of knives made after roughly 1980 does not seem to be as good as the earlier steel. I base this on the knives on my own carbon steel knives that I use and the knives I have seen and repaired over the years.

In my opinion, the Western knives I have owned and seen made prior to about 1985 were some of the best carbon steel knives I know of. I think it was 1985 or 1986 that Coleman (the lantern people) purchase Western knives. In my opinion the quality of Western carbon steel knives took a hit from which they never recovered. But the earlier carbon steel Western knives are, in my opinion, some of the best carbon steel knives ever made.

That is my 2¢ worth.

[jerryd6818]

Good Lord, Dale. That was more like a buck and a half.

[orvet]

You are right Jerry, (the guy who posts more than I do),

Here is your $1.48 change......

Or do you owe me $1.48?

[deltaboy]

You are right Jerry, (the guy who posts more than I do),

Here is your $1.48 change......

Or do you owe me $1.48?

We owe you a big thank you . Your expert knowledge affirms my own conclusions based upon my and my family's experiences the past 75 years. Dad swears all brands of American made Knifes started going down in quality after 1973 when Scrade dropped the Walden off their Knifes.

[TripleF]

Let me say.......I'm working my way up to the novice level in blade steel performance.

I have a few options when I carry a fixed blade and I always, always carry my broken tip, paracord handled Western because it's
soooooooooo dang sharp. The edge is ahead of the others I have.

[zzyzzogeton]

Western's go-to steel in the pre-Coleman days was a 1095CV very similar to Kabar's 1095CV and Camillus' 0179-6C.

Western was one of the first, if not the first major cutlery company to include a cryogenic cycle into their heat treatment quenching process. The earliest documented use of cryo at Western that I know of is in their 1975 catalog, but they had already been doing it for several years by that time. This really improved the performance of their knives.

[treefarmer]

It seems y'all are talking about fixed blades, I think, So do the Western folders have the same good qualities in their blades as the ones mentioned?
Treefarmer

[Mumbleypeg]

This discussion is making me curious what Harvey (H. N.) Platts used for steel and tempering when he started Western after leaving Case and moving to Colorado for health reasons (he had grinder's consumption). Having been half owner of Case he had to know all the Case suppliers and processes.

Ken

[zzyzzogeton]

It seems y'all are talking about fixed blades, I think, So do the Western folders have the same good qualities in their blades as the ones mentioned?
Treefarmer

As I seldom stray into the world of folding knives beyond the utilitarian use of them, any thing I say should be taken with a block of salt...

But...

I would think that the HT / Tempering processes would have been the same whether the blade in question was a fixed blade or folder blade, assuming the steel types used were the same across the board. I can't see how they would have different processes for the same steels.

Obviously, the process for any SS used would have been different from that used for 1095, but the only process differences might have been soak times during HTing for thin folder blades vs W49 / L46-8 blades.

[zzyzzogeton]

This discussion is making me curious what Harvey (H. N.) Platts used for steel and tempering when he started Western after leaving Case and moving to Colorado for health reasons (he had grinder's consumption). Having been half owner of Case he had to know all the Case suppliers and processes.

Ken

Early on (1911 to 1918), Western's steels and processes were IDENTICAL to Case's as Case was making the knives Western was selling. W.R. Case paid off H.N.'s half of CASE Knives by making knives for Western States Cutlery.

After Western started making their own knives in 1919, I would suspect that Western used the same steels that Case used as he would have had contact with the same suppliers Case was using.

H.N.'s son, Harlow, had taken a year or so of metallography classes in the UK following his service in WW2. Upon Harlow's return to Boulder, I suspect that Western used what H.N. had implemented at Case during his years their and "tweeked" the processes based on the lastest UK metallographic / metallurgic processes being taught at the University of Sheffield post-WW1.

Harlow's interest in metallography and metallurgy probably drove Western's process modifications over the years.

[Mumbleypeg]

Makes complete sense. While at Case, Platts ran the Case factory operations while Russ Case ran sales operations, so it's logical that Platts would have implemented what he knew and had done at Case, at least initially.

Ken

[terryl308]

Western's go-to steel in the pre-Coleman days was a 1095CV very similar to Kabar's 1095CV and Camillus' 0179-6C.

Western was one of the first, if not the first major cutlery company to include a cryogenic cycle into their heat treatment quenching process. The earliest documented use of cryo at Western that I know of is in their 1975 catalog, but they had already been doing it for several years by that time. This really improved the performance of their knives.

ZZ, you beat me to it, I was going to mention the possibility of a cryogenic treatment for their 1095 high carbon blades. If all else is the same, it will "enhance" the heat treatment of the blades. For you that don't know what that is, it is a soaking of the blades in liquid nitrogen (about -350 degrees) after heat treating and tempering. I believe that would aid in the edge holding ability of the blades. Stainless steel is a whole different ball game. Terry