SCHRADES MY TRUE LOVE

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Thu May 17, 2007 9:19 pm

Blade Brothers; a comparison of an Ulster, with a Walden. I can see these two knives going over the same benches, through the same cutlers' hands, at different times. The most obvious differences are the tang stamps, and the threaded bolsters, but otherwise the DNA is real strong. These are recent acquisitions, the Walden from A&E's collection purchases, and the Ulster was scrambled up in a box of knives at the Oregon show last month!

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Thu May 17, 2007 9:23 pm

they look like they went to different schools, together.

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Fri May 18, 2007 4:55 am

Nice Charlie!

I wish I had seen the Ulster first!

Seriously, a very nice example. Great find.

Dale

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Sat May 26, 2007 4:58 pm

I managed to drag this home today from saturdays knife hunting adventures. A little schrade cut. Looks like a humpback half whittler? pretty full, some honest wear but not abused. The worst spot is a tiny chip near the front mark side bolster. The chip is old, because it is worn smooth from pocket carry.

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:46 pm

Sorry I have been to jammed up to keep up with my postings. I still have a bunch of Schrade cuts to show however. Since I had to do a display yesterday ( see wounded warrior thread) I had to take this display case out of the vitrene it sits in, is a monster to get to and has five other smaller but similar cases on top of it so getting to it is rare. Since I had it out I thought it would be a good time to show them . These are all Schrade Waldens they are all real bone. there are 3 2 OT knives two are smooth bone ( which is the regular version ) one is jigged bone which is very rare only a handful were made they were trying to make up there minds if they wanted to market them this way. Also an 8-OT in real smooth bone. Most of these are new ( condition) old stock. Most were made from 56 to 59 from handle stock brought to Ulster ( Ellenville ) after the move from Walden. When this ran out the company Schrade concentrated on various forms of delrin synthetic materials for handle materials. They did not start using bone or stag again until the mid 70 tys and by then the tang was changed from Schrade Walden to just Schrade. I hope you like the pics. LT

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:57 pm

pics 11-20

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:00 pm

Pics 21-30

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:01 pm

Awesome collection, LT. Sure would like to see them up close!! Please keep them coming!
The jigging looks different than a lot of Waldens I've seen, on several of those knives. Can you talk a bit about when the different jigs appeared??

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:01 pm

pics 31-38

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:26 pm

This question sometimes comes up at shows. Usually from collectors who have been doing it for a while and consider themselves experts. I have seen them pick them up and say this jigging is wrong. The answer is in the statment I made earlier 56-59 made in Ellenville. When the move was made not all the old equiptment ie jigging dies ect were reinstituted and or used in the new ( ie ULSTER plant ). They refurbished machines for increased and more varied production. When they did they used some of the old jigging dies and some new. As with replaced tang stamps ( when they wear out) while they may all say the same thing they often are not exactly the same. from 46 until 56 a matter of 10 years in walden under Schrade Walden when they jigged handles they were still using the same machinery that they made Schrade cuts from for years before. So collectors are not used to seeing the sightly different variations. Most are not aware of this reason. So they assume that there is something wrong . Actually the funny part is that these under Schrade Walden these were only made until the old material ran out about 3 or 4 years so these under Schrade walden are among the most rare bone versions Schrade ever made. However explaining this to some genius at a show is virtually impossible since it must be a fake because they are experts who have collected Schrades for years and do not recognize the early Ulster, Schrade Walden variation. Versus the earlier Walden Schrade cut and Schrade Walden style. I have another display but filled with pearls made during this period again until the old material ran out. Never a question on them even though the knives themselves are exactly the same as the jigged bone versions. Now to further complicate matters when Schrade did start making jigged bone handles again ( 70tys 80tys ect special issues) they actually used some of the same jigging from the late fiftys that they had not used since then. However the tangs were changed. I suppose someone could have bought a new delrin knife in the 60tys in the anticipation of Schrade opting to start producing jigged handles for special issues in the 80tys saved the original knife in new condition then 20 years later bought the anticipated special edition and then exchanged handles so you would have to buy the knife for about 10 or 15 dollars in the 60 tys save it for 20 years then buy the heritage or working mans set or some thing similar for 40 or 50 dollars changed hands making the heritage obviously not original putting in the hours needed and had the old style fiftys jigged bone handles on a pre 72 Schrade Walden which in the 80tys might have been worth 50 to 75 dollars. Try and explain this to this 75 year old guy at a show who has seen the old style all his life has about 5 cents on a dollar of actual knowledge and has no real knowledge of what the history is. In my case it is a bit easier since I bought and was given these knives as they are in the 60 tys and early seventys. Many by people who were employed by Schrade.

This type of misunderstanding ( conflicting enigma ) is not unique to just these. In 46 ( approx) Schrade cut went to Schrade Walden until then there automatic hunters under Schrade cut had been handled in jigged bone they still were until the existing stock was used up then they went to a composite ( ie early plastic ) jigged handle. The fact is these knifes in bone while legit because some were made this way. In reality most that you find this way have been rehandled because the bone was only used for a short period . This happens because bone can be found and copied the early composite plastic is totally impossible to replace and it gets brittle and this material has not been made in 50 years. So in reality down the road these in plastic will be worth more than the older Schrade cuts or Schrade Walden varietys do to rarity . I have seen those same Schrade experts look down there nose at them "don't want no dang plastic Schrade Walden hunter in plastic got one in bone? " Sure right here genius, genuine cowshin 6 months old . A little knowledge is a lot more dangerous than you might believe. Another example is the orange paratrooper knife. Made by Schrade, Camillus, and Logan Smithe none of them were great but the Schrade and Camillus were servicable and useful, the Logans were so bad the army cancelled the contract. Now which do you think is worth more you guessed it The Logan. why? supply and demand if you are a collector you want one of each the Logans were so bad it is becoming impossible to find one in decent condition.

What happens with a company like Schrade is that the people who really know the answers to why these things happened pass on and this history is distorted and changed perhapes that is why It aggravates me so. It is a good question Charlie unfortunately it takes all this to answer it. If the Schrade collection still existed to day you could simply look at it and as a physical reference all this would be visually self evident it would jump right out no words and just by looking you could see the entire evolution. LT

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:48 pm

I may be biased, but the muskrat (MVC-024S.JPG) speaks to me. those all all beauties, but that muskrat just caught my eye.

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:59 pm

I made a post earlier but I don't see it here now.

I love the Daddy Barlow the most, followed by the other Barlows, though that green bone Muskrat has a great deal of appeal to me.

Thanks for sharing with us,
Dale

ribbedbumpers · Post by **ribbedbumpers** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:33 pm

Lt... Thanks again, and again for the time and effort taken to make these posts.. One of my favorites is the little swell center jigged whittler...

GB

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:18 pm

Thanks for the discourse, LT. It's not an easy body of knowledge to grasp all at once. I'm trying to understand the history without predjudice.
How many people actually know the whole story I wonder?? No one has come forward except you, especially on the older Waldens and Cut. Co.s, with the time line.
I once thought I could re-create a history with a comprehensive collection, but I've run up against the cost. Can't afford many any more. Your collection, and knowledge, is the best hope to preserve the Schrade story so callously cast to the wind!

ea42 · Post by **ea42** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:37 am

That's an excellent explanation LT, got me going back and checking over my bone examples now. That jigged 2OT is absolutely fabulous! Never even new they existed 'till tonight. Thanks!

Eric

ea42 · Post by **ea42** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:45 am

LT,
I've got a question re. a Schrade-Walden 834. It's got stag handles and I'll be darned if I can find any reference to stag handled 834's anywhere. Could it be an old re-handle?

Eric

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:09 am

Ok this is only a thinking out loud opinion I do not remember stag regarding this knife . However it could very well be out of the factory I doubt it because they did not do them that way then, however you have to remember the beauty of Schrade and the enigma of it is that ( as I have said many times you might find anything. ). The way the shield is pinned and the general nice fit is in favor of factory, the material for that vintage is against. The nice condition of the handles of a knife this age is against the rough condition of the blades ect. How is the walk and talk? If I had to flip a coin I would say it is rehandle. If the walk and talk are bad I would say that confims it as a rehandle. If it is real good that would add points on the original side. Now how about for a bullshit answer. LT

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:43 am

As you said LT..........."the beauty of Schrade...."

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:00 pm

orvet wrote:
As you said LT..........."the beauty of Schrade...."

Also the beauty of Bullshit

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:01 pm

I KNOW you have a sense of humor, LT!

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:46 am

As I have said before my Grandfather in OKLA raised cattle and sold them all over the country he was a great bullshipper. While I do not raise cattle I have tried to follow in his footsteps as closly as I could and have often been called a great bullshipper with only a couple of letters different. LT

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:24 am

I think you are doing a great job of following in his footsteps (I'm sure he stepped carefully!), and you are a fine example for, and influence on, the youth of today!

ea42 · Post by **ea42** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:08 pm

Charlie,
Guess it was a little too heavy for the scanner, eh?

Lt,
Thanks for the reply! Walk and talk is great on all but the spey which does bind up a bit mid-way. The handles are quite pocket worn, although not as much as the blades. Maybe Herman Williams was practicing his stag mounting craft in his spare time

. nevertheless it is a nice variation on the standard handles.

Eric

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:44 pm

You never know believe me I have encountered stranger stuff. Here is a hint Herman very seldom did a knife without also doing file work. Sorry I could not have been more definitive. What you say is very true obviously a knife someone cared and carried for a long time the slow blade the amount of wear because someone obviously did use it for a long time makes me feel it is a rehandle. I also agree with your observation that it is a nice alternate represenative . Thanks for posting it. LT

redferd · Post by **redferd** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:14 pm

LT, just to let you know that I too am interested in Schrade knives. I have been for several years +. Thanks for the information. I enjoyed reading all the posts. Very informative. Thank you.

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SCHRADES MY TRUE LOVE

Blade Brothers!