Schrade Heritage-"H" series.

[Schradenut]

I have been trying to educate myself on the "H" series of Heritage knives, Such as H-012, H-050, H-070, H194.

I have these knives, but unfortunately know very little about their history, and where they fit in with the 1983~1986 series of Red, brown and green knives.

Apart from the history, i would like to know how many knives fit into this corral, and what they are. Is there a list?
I hope you guys can get me out of my dilemma.
Tony.

[dweb1897]

I can tell you a little about the 83-86 sets. In 83-84 the sets had a barlow 2661 and in 85-86 they replaced the barlow with a 2 blade jack..2331. I've only seen the 2331 with a 85 shield and in brown bone. I suppose the other colors were made but I have yet to find one.

[tongueriver]

I have been trying to educate myself on the "H" series of Heritage knives, Such as H-012, H-050, H-070, H194.

I have these knives, but unfortunately know very little about their history, and where they fit in with the 1983~1986 series of Red, brown and green knives.

Apart from the history, i would like to know how many knives fit into this corral, and what they are. Is there a list?
I hope you guys can get me out of my dilemma.
Tony.

I am familiar with the 83-86 knives, but do not recognize the ones you refer to. Perhaps images or descriptions would help. If you go to the standard reference library at
http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/ and peruse the catalogs and flyers you might find what you're looking for.

[orvet]

This is a 1983 flyer that shows the red, green and brown bone handles.

[orvet]

Some more flyers:

This flyer (used in both 1983 & 1984) gives an insight to why the Heritage series was not promoted more than it was; Schrade was very busy promoting several lines of cutlery, Old Timer and Uncle Henry plus the Heritage Series, The 3rd Generation, several Filet Knives, The Scrimshaw line and the smaller Custom Made Series of lock backs.

The Heritage Series and the 3rd Generation were in direct competition with their bread and butter lines, OT & UH, though appealing to a higher income knife user.
IMHO, they would have had more success if they has built the Heritage Line OR the 3rd Gen. for a few years until it was well established before introducing another competing line. I think they introduced the Heritage & 3rd Gen. too close to one another and neither line really took off, though it is doubtful to me that the 3rd Gen. would have ever been a huge success at the time it was introduced (early 1980s). There was too much competition from Japan in those years with very well made knives, newer designs and steels that hurt the traditional style American knife makers. (my opinion).

[Schradenut]

Many thanks to everyone for their input into my request. I didn't make myself clear, judging by your reply's. I am fairly up to date with the smooth bone Heritage sets 1983~1986. The info i am after is the "H" series of Heritage knives. Special thanks to you Dale for all the effort you went to help me.

I am attaching some pics of the knives i have, and would love a list of all the knives produced with that series.

The Colt Trapper could be a 'mixed bag' with its Old Timer and Colt shields on Orange handles, and the Heritage H194 blade.

If there is any material out there pertaining to the "H" Heritage set that these knives belong to, then i would be most appreciative.
Tony.

[tongueriver]

Here they are, looks like 1997?

http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/ ... ndex_5.htm
http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/ ... 97-087.htm

[Schradenut]

Looks like you have nailed it Cal. They are all the ones i am after. It appears that there was only that one flyer regarding those particular Heritage knives.

Had a conversation with Dale, and much to my disgust, 3 out of the 6 knives i posted are "End of Days", so i won't have to look any further for them.
Many thanks to all that participated in my inquiry.
Cheers,
Tony.

[Mustanger]

Glad to get that info. Now I can quit looking for the 8OT version, since there isn't one. I have the H889 though. I need the H897 and have so far only had a shot at a scratched up used one. I never knew about, or have seen the Pro Hunter. A full set would be nice to get. I saw the sign board for the display for sale on ebay awhile back and passed on it.
Here is a head scratcher for you. It's the only one I've ever seen. Probably an EOD. But I still want one anyway.

[Mustanger]

Many thanks to everyone for their input into my request. I didn't make myself clear, judging by your reply's. I am fairly up to date with the smooth bone Heritage sets 1983~1986. The info i am after is the "H" series of Heritage knives. Special thanks to you Dale for all the effort you went to help me.

I am attaching some pics of the knives i have, and would love a list of all the knives produced with that series.
Tony.

I have seen some discussion about that yellow peanut knife being a limited edition series that didn't get off the ground before the bankruptcy. And then there is this oddball H897 in black.

[orvet]

Here is a head scratcher for you. It's the only one I've ever seen. Probably an EOD. But I still want one anyway.

I had a H070 but sold it.
I also have a blade from the factory for a H070, the 5" lock back which is on the 1997 flyer.
I think your knife got a drop point blade (quite rare) and didn't get the shield.
Your blade was most likely for a SFO. The drop point blade in those 5" lock backs appeared in some SFO offerings, but were never a catalog item. I have seen them referred to as LB7DP and also as in LB9. I am not sure who the LB9 was made for, though it could have been Ducks Unlimited. There may be a flyer in the Collectors-of-Schrade website, but I have not had a chance to check for it yet.

We all have to remember that this is Schrade we are dealing with:
Catalogs are merely a suggestion of some of the most common knives they made and the info contained in the catalogs may be more or less correct.

As I have said many times;
"With Schrade nothing is carved in stone, though a few things may be etched in Jell-O."

For convenience here is the 1997 Heritage flyer:

[Shearer]

I managed to collect a few knives in the Heritage collection.
Thanks for the information Dale and tongueriver

Grant

[Mustanger]

Hey Dale,
Thanks for the input. To be clear, that isn't my knife and that picture is the only evidence I know of it's exsistence. I do own the black H897 though. I've been interested in these Heritage knives since about 1999 or maybe 2000. I was in a western wear and tack store and there was a half bushel wicker basket full of the things in their respective boxes by the cash register. I was trying to be thrifty and after picking through the basket, I settled on a H034 for $15 and a H194 for $17. The H194 has been a favorite ever since. When I started collecting more in earnest, I managed to pick up all but the H897, a H070 with a shield on it and the Pro Hunter. I have asked around about these knives before and came up empty, till now. I never knew how many patterns were in this set. There are un-shielded H070 knives on ebay regularly for cheaper than a regular LB7 or 7OT. The only two with shields that I had a shot at were more expensive than I wanted to pay for them, (north of $100). I just picked up the H296, MIB, a couple of months ago and was surprised by it because I didn't know about that one. I have been curious about the drop point version of the LB7 for years. I've seen many SFOs and a few that appear to be stock production and some that make me suspicious that they were assembled after 2004 by someone else. The LB9, I have been told, is the drop point with a gut hook. But I only know what I pick up on the internet and have been steered wrong before. The only ones in the pictures that I own are the Rocky Mtn. Elk Foundation gut hook model and the un-shielded H070. The others I posted are just to perpetuate your comments about Schrade and finding it hard to nail down what the heck they were doing with all the patterns that show up. Note that the scrimshaw is mated with the wrong box, probably by the seller.

[tongueriver]

Mustanger, looking at your drop-point LB-7 above-shown with the etch 440-C Stainless, brings to mind the following runs of knives designed to be sent to Europe. Part of these knives were seeded out in correct boxes and incorrect boxes to U.S. dealers. I have the 126 and the 226. Extremely rare knives. They both have that etch.The ones I own may be available. The following is from Michael Little's research:
In early March of 1991, an order was received by Tim Faust, products Manager at ISC Ellenville, from the European sales office for five special Old Timer patterns for export only. These knives, designated “Product Family - Old Timer Europe”, were the 19OT, 126OT, 226OT, 512OT, and 518OT, all based upon domestic patterns, but with unique tang stamps and stainless blades. All were specified to be placed in black varnished boxes with gold imprinting, and packed with a standard OT/UH brochure.
The ISC production records revealed another part of the story:
The records for 1991 indicate only 25 shipped, and none shipped for the following four years. But the total inventory of 2,181 pieces produced dwindled from 2,156 to 1,077 to 221 to 0, indicating that they were salted into the regular 152OT production to unload the excess inventory for which there was no market beyong the initial 25 sent out in 1991. Their appearance on the U.S. market in regular production boxes supports this theory. The fact remains that while they are uncommon, they were not an error, except in judgement perhaps of the European sales office and the factory New Products Office for tooling up the order and running off 2,000 pieces (plus the normal 200 pc. +/- over run). Ditching them in the regular production boxes was a smart move in recovering the production costs, less the cost of the new tang stamp. No one really noticed the difference on the retail end, except that the order used stainless blading, the odd stamp. These did not have the later introduced stainless blades with hollow grind.
Once we knew what to look for, the relative rarity of the Europe Old Timer knives became more apparent.

19OT - A two blade pen knife, stainless blades and springs, OT handles.
Est. Qty. 1991: 600
Total Produced: 1,835
Total shipped to Europe: 251

126OT - One blade Mustang, stainless blade, OT handles, same knife as 125OT except stainless.
Est. Qty. 1991: 1,000
Total Produced: 1,483
Total shipped to Europe: 637



226OT - Same knife as 225OT except stainless.
Est. Qty. 1991: 500
Total Produced:
Total shipped to Europe: 953
(A subsequent order for this pattern appeared in 1994 for 500 pieces)

512OT - Same knife as 152OT except stainless.
Est. Qty. 1991: 750
Total Produced: 2,181
Total shipped to Europe:25

518OT - Same knife as 158OT except stainless.Est. Qty. 1991: 600
Total Produced: 2,246
Total shipped to Europe: 26

[Mustanger]

Great information, Tongueriver. Thanks for sharing that.

[orvet]

The LB9, I have been told, is the drop point with a gut hook.

You are correct, I was out to lunch when I posted the LB-9 as a Drop Point.


Here is the SFO version of an LB-9. This is one I sold a few years ago.

I also have a 9-OT which is a gut hook version of a of the 6-OT.
Like the 6-OT the 9-OT is also a bare head.
I will try to remember to take some pics and post them here.

[Mustanger]

The attachment Schrade 9OT custom b.jpg is no longer available

Getting way off topic here, but here is a plain LB9 from
http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/new-uh/index.htm

Since any scales from an LB7, LB8, 7OT or SC507 could be applied to a frame with a drop point or gut hook blade, I imagine the different configurations that could show up out there somewhere. Like a Old Timer or Staglon version. An Uncle Henry staglon would be real nice. I posted the custom stag knife from my saved photo files to peak the imagination. I have no information about it. It does have the standard tang stamp instead of LTD. I have not seen a LB9 with anything but a LTD tang stamp.

[orvet]

Since any scales from an LB7, LB8, 7OT or SC507 could be applied to a frame with a drop point or gut hook blade, I imagine the different configurations that could show up out there somewhere. Like a Old Timer or Staglon version. An Uncle Henry staglon would be real nice.

While the outside of the 5" Schrade lock backs are essentially the same, there are several variations internally that prevents the swapping of blades. I don't have a picture handy but there are several internal differences with the blades that prevent this. The pivot hole size & the locking lug size, just to name a couple. I will try and post pics of the different variations later including the Heritage blade to illustrate my point.

[Mustanger]

While the outside of the 5" Schrade lock backs are essentially the same, there are several variations internally that prevents the swapping of blades. I don't have a picture handy but there are several internal differences with the blades that prevent this. The pivot hole size & the locking lug size, just to name a couple. I will try and post pics of the different variations later including the Heritage blade to illustrate my point.

That is good to know. So essentially they are two different knives, to accomodate the blade type. But scales from a LB8 could be attached to a LB9, maybe? I wander off into fantasy land sometimes with thinking of different configurations of standard knives. It's the oddballs that appear from time to time that spark my imagination. Like the "15UH", 77UH and EOD knives. Thanks for the information!

[orvet]

Actually there are a number of variances;
1) - Variances in the diameter of the pivot pin hole: small is 1/8" & large it 1/4"

2) - Variance in the locking lug size: small notch is 5/32" & large notch is 1/4"

3) - Variation in placement of the rocker pin hole in the lock bar: 1-3/8" from locking lug & 1-7/8" from the lug

Here are a comparison of the different blades I have.

Some such as the SC507 have different size pivot holes and some have different size locking lug notches.
You can't tell from the blade itself about the placement of the pivot pin.
So with 3 possible differences on each knife there are a number of possibilities for each pattern.

Keep in mind I don't have all the possible combinations of blades or lock bars available to examine.
IIRC, I have replaced LB7 blades that had the narrow locking lug notch, I just don't have one of those blades left.

Sorry it has taken me so long to get these posted, we have been super busy. We drove to Portland yesterday afternoon to see one of our granddaughters off to boot camp, (Army). We got home about 2330 hrs. I am dragging today.

[Mustanger]

Thank you, Dale. I appreciate your time and effort in presenting the variables of the lockback knives. I didn't even consider the rocker pin hole position. Get some rest. You deserve it!

[JonTerry]

Following for info

[Mustanger]

I managed to pick up these two a couple of years after this thread started. The pictures aren't great. They are from the Ebay listings. And you might like to see the Herman Williams customized H050 on the bottom. (not mine)

[JonTerry]

I love the Stag and think I try and do something similar

Great looking knife