Ebay/Paypal question

[just bob]

My situation is a bit different but I will post it in the hope it may answer some questions of others. I was the seller and sold an item back in November on ebay. It got bogged down in the holiday shuffle and also caught up in the covid manpower shortage. The buyer opened a claim for undelivered item and after 30 days ebay refunded the entire purchase price + shipping to them. I understood this was to happen and was fine with that. Low and behold almost 60 days after the purchase the item was delivered to the buyer. I have contacted them twice through the ebay message system asking them to let me pay the postage and return the item to me. No response at all. Here is a copy & paste from the ebay help pages concerning this exact situation.

If your item arrives after you've received a refund
It's possible that your item may still arrive after you've been issued a refund. If this happens, you should get in touch with the seller and try to reach an agreement on what to do next. You can choose to either:

Return the item and keep the refund
Keep the item and arrange to reimburse the seller

As I got no response at all from the buyer I contacted ebay customer service this morning with a phone call. I asked them to intercede on my behalf and contact the buyer and arrange for them to print a return label at my expense or else refund their refund. As you might expect things just don't work like that in the real world. They sounded very sympathetic, but told me there was nothing at all they could do to compel the buyer to return the item. It was strictly a voluntary action most ebay members would take. OK then I get it, but they did say they would file a claim with ebay and ask that I be given a courtesy refund through ebay and not through the buyer at all. They say this happens often. I didn't know about this at all. Please note this was a low dollar item. I did not send it insured, but with tracking. The transaction was by credit card and not through pay pal. I did not file a postal intercept as that cost $13.25 and would have been about half the value of the item. A lot of different details in these transactions so my situation doesn't apply to all. Had I sent it insured it would be a different ballgame, but I did not. As Roland said though they seem anxious to make sure the buyer isn't short changed and far less willing to give equal footing to the seller.

[kootenay joe]

Bob, did the money to refund the buyer come from you ?
Or, because the tracking number shows that you did ship the item, were you allowed to keep the payment and ebay paid the refund to the buyer ?
kj

[just bob]

Bob, did the money to refund the buyer come from you ?
Or, because the tracking number shows that you did ship the item, were you allowed to keep the payment and ebay paid the refund to the buyer ?
kj

No they took the money from my account to refund the buyer. In fact they sent an email saying my account was frozen until this was settled. In essence they took the money the buyer paid to me back out of my account and returned it back to them. Then on top of that they get to keep the item. They may or may not give me a courtesy refund through ebay. The request has been made. I'll update this when I get an answer.

[kootenay joe]

Thanks Bob.
Would the outcome have been any different if buyer had paid with PP instead of using a credit card ?
kj

[just bob]

Maybe? The ebay rep asked me if the item was paid for through pp or cc. They said if it had been through pp I could open a claim there. I don't know if the outcome would have been any different or not, but at least that would have been another step to take. As it is now I am SOL without a courtesy refund. All roads end here.

[wbrj01]

I ordered an item on Ebay with Paypal, 25 days ago and it has not shown up, although tracking shows that it was shipped a day or so after I ordered. I don't think that it will show; do I have any recourse? Considering that it was shipped, it is not the seller's fault (unless the packaging was poor).

Ebay will refund your money

[Jeffinn]

Maybe? The ebay rep asked me if the item was paid for through pp or cc. They said if it had been through pp I could open a claim there. I don't know if the outcome would have been any different or not, but at least that would have been another step to take. As it is now I am SOL without a courtesy refund. All roads end here.

PayPal is pro-buyer and anti-seller. The seller pays all the fees and the seller takes all the risk.
If you ship an item and the mailman delivers it to the wrong house, you’ll lose your money and your product.
If a buyer decides they don't like an item they simply file a claim and use the “not as described” clause. PayPal takes the money out of your account while they “investigate” the claim and then routinely gives a refund to the customer.
Again you’ll lose your money and in some cases your product as well. According to them they do not have the ability to force the customer to return your product.
PayPal for buyers is a great deal. PayPal for sellers is a crap shoot.
Oh, and good luck getting a hold of someone who can intelligently answer your questions when you have an issue.
Jeff

[Paladin]

I also sell on the Bay and I had a buyer pull a shenanigan two nights ago and it was a shenanigan I had not previously encountered.
At the close of the auction the winning buyer, and he had bid 2 times, immediately wanted to cancel the transaction. Nothing was said about the reason for the request, just a simple request. I could refuse, wait for payment and, assuming he paid, wait for him to demand a return and refund. I called eBay and a very nice lady told basically that there was nothing to be done. I could accept or refuse. I immediately blocked him from bidding again, though if he changes his eBay name he can likely bid again.
The seller does not have a chance in eBay. Fortunately, this sort of thing does not happen very often but it sure raises my blood pressure when it does happen.

Ray

[kootenay joe]

Jeff, thanks for your post. You explain things the same way as i understand them. So i can now stop doubting myself and stop expecting any fairness towards the seller by ebay or PP.
kj

[just bob]

Well I lost but at least I can say I went down swinging. I was contacted by ebay customer service via email, which is a very uncommon occurrence and asked to provide all additional information that I thought was relevant to my request for a courtesy refund. I did just that and cited the holiday postal backlog, Covid situation and the fact that I had attempted to contact the buyer through the ebay message system with no response. I will copy and past their reply for others that may face this situation.

Thanks for contacting us back about your appeal.

Your appeal is over 30 days from our final decision. As system is designed, 30 days is the maximum amount of time allowed to resolve a case in the Resolution Center; then, after the case is closed, you have 30 more days to request an appeal. Because it's after this second 30-day timeframe, we won't be able to accept your appeal.

We highly recommend for you to communicate with the buyer for him to ship the item back or return the money. If the buyer would agree to return the money you can send invoice to him through PayPal. Please know that the buyer is no longer obliged to return the money or the item.

We understand that some situations can prevent a timely response, but please keep in mind that these timeframes are for the benefit of both buyers and sellers. The 30-day limit on appeals allows us to be sure we're being consistent, and thus more fair, with all of our case decisions.

At this point, I encourage you to contact the buyer so they can help you communicate with the carrier with the item’s whereabouts.

Of course they don't offer any suggestions on what to do if the buyer won't respond or intercede for you? This is only a speed bump in the road and not a major hurdle for me. I have to say that ebay has improved so much in the last 10 years. In the old days it was a nightmare. You had to accept out of state personal checks and wait until they cleared your local bank. If you were a buyer and left bad feedback for a seller they would in turn leave bad feedback for you as a buyer. They have improved so many aspects of their services. They can never be perfect and please everyone involved. In my situation due to the Covid and holiday mail if they would have extended the deadlines just a bit they would have helped me I'm sure. My situation was one in ten thousand. As Doris Day once Said - Que, sera sera.

[tongueriver]

Update to OP post: The seller has refunded me. I will do the same for him if the package arrives some day.