Traditional Slip Joint Knife Configuration

[Craig Thompson]

I have carried a pocket knife since I was in 5th grade, about fifty years ago. My first was a 2 blade Jack slip joint from Sears. In high school or college I started carrying a single blade lockback. Over the years I have carried a variety of knives including a multi tool.

Recently I have become interested in traditional slip joint folders. I just got a Tidioute #66 Calf Roper, 3 blade. This is a magnificent tool.

Now I am contemplating buying a two blade folder. I am curious about two basic variations: both blades hinged at the same end (Jack) or hinged at opposite ends (does this have a pattern name?).

For a two bladed knife I prefer both blades to be full length.

Is there a reason or purpose or advantage for the Jack pattern vs. hinged at opposite ends?

Any input is most appreciated.

Craig T

[whitebuffalo58]

Welcome to AAPK, Craig.

When it comes to 2-blade knives, I don't really have a preference as to blade configuration. I think the main difference is that typically a 'jack' will operate off of independent springs and 'equal ends' typically operate off of a single back spring.


One thing I personally have no real appreciation for on a 2-blade knife, is having one blade that is a lefthanded pull. It happens, but I don't especially care for it.


Something to mention with knives operating on a single back spring, it's almost always a bad idea to open both blades at the same time, doubling the preasure on the spring. (as too many people do while taking pics) One exception would be a knife with halfstops and one blade in the half open position before opening the other blade.


Just a few of my own opinions, again welcome to AAPK,


WB

[XX Case XX]

Is there a reason or purpose or advantage for the Jack pattern vs. hinged at opposite ends?

Hello Craig. Welcome to AAPK. You pose an interesting question but as far as I'm concerned, it's all personal preference. Whether both blades are on one end or opposite really makes no difference as you still end up with 2 blades. That's why knife manufacturer's make so many different configurations, everyone wants something different.

My suggestion is get what you want in whatever style makes you happy. If you like both blades on one side, get a traditional Jack knife type. If you like them on opposite ends, get a Muskrat style. After all, you're the one who's using it. Right?

__________
Mike

[jerryd6818]

Welcome to AAPK. Glad to have you aboard. You're going to get all kinds of opinions because everyone has their individual likes and dislikes. As Mike said, buy what you like.

Depending on your taste in blades and knife size, there are many different configurations, as you probably already know. As to your question about pattern names for knives with a blade at each end on the same spring, the ones that right away come to mind are the "Muskrat", the "Moose" (a larger knife) and the "Pen knife" ( typically a small knife). I'm sure there are others that I just don't remember at the moment but there will be others who will come along and fill the gaps.

Schrade 77OT Muskrat

Great Eastern 541209 Moose Equal End Cigar

Imperial Advertising Pen Knife

There are a multitude of two blade Jack patterns. Personally, I'm drawn to the two blade Jacks which come in just about any size you want all the way from the LARGE "Folding Hunter" down to the diminutive "Peanut". Personally I'm a huge fan of the 3¼" closed medium jack and the 3½" "Mini-Trapper" or any other 3½" Jacks. JMHO

Case Folding Hunter

Camillus 14 Jack 3-3/8" closed

Case Mini-Trapper 3½" closed

Rough Rider Peanut compared to a Case Mini-Trapper (for size)

[Steve Warden]

Is there a reason or purpose or advantage for the Jack pattern vs. hinged at opposite ends?

Hello Craig. Welcome to AAPK. You pose an interesting question but as far as I'm concerned, it's all personal preference. Whether both blades are on one end or opposite really makes no difference as you still end up with 2 blades. That's why knife manufacturer's make so many different configurations, everyone wants something different.

My suggestion is get what you want in whatever style makes you happy. If you like both blades on one side, get a traditional Jack knife type. If you like them on opposite ends, get a Muskrat style. After all, you're the one who's using it. Right?

__________
Mike

Hi Craig! Mike saved me the typing!!

[doglegg]

Craig, welcome to AAPK. I apologize for all the preceding post. Do not buy which ONE you like. Buy one of EACH. All those fellows above have multiples of each and wait till next week and they will have more. Buy some you don't like and before long you will like them.

[treefarmer]

Howdy, Craig Thompson, to AAPK!
"To each his own" is good advice but you asked for a reason. I've always liked full sized Trappers but a few years ago, I discovered the Moose pattern that Jerryd mentioned. The Case full sized Moose, the 6275 has the same blades as the 6254 Trapper, a spay and a clip, and as you mentioned, one on each end. I like them I suppose just because they are not a pattern you see every day. The Muskrat is one I use a lot during deer season, it usually has identical clip blades on both ends( there are exceptions, think Hawbaker).
doglegg will get you in big trouble with that kind of advice, who ever heard of buying one of each?
Here's a Muskrat that came from AAPK member gsmith7158, who generously gifted me with it:

Treefarmer

[bdev]

Hi Craig and welcome.
Generally speaking, lets say we're talking about a 4" knife. All things being equal, the jack knife's blades will be longer than the same sized knife if the blades open at either end. Blades on opposite opening knives need room to "nest" next to each other so the blades need to be a bit shorter (we're talking single spring knives).
Jack knives usually open on the mark side only (mark side is the shield side) but there are some exceptions. Opposite opening knives open on both the mark and pile side.
Sounds like you'd probably be better served with a jack style knife, especially if you're looking for the blades to be full length.
GEC makes a great knife and since you are happy with the calf roper, you might want to see what other jack patterns GEC makes. They cost a bit more than the average knife but well worth it.
Some jack patterns that come to mind are the 54 Big Jack pattern, the 78 American Jack, the 48 Slim Dog Leg, the 73 Trapper and many others.

[jerryd6818]

It may be helpful to see the patterns Bruno's talking about. I doubt you'll ever get to coon finger the patterns Bruno recommended outside a knife show and a picture is worth a thousand words, pictures will have to suffice for the time being.

I've already shown you an example of the 54 Moose above, so here's the 78 and 48 (I don't have a 73).

[Steve Warden]

Some beauties there, Jerry!

[bdev]

Some beauties there, Jerry!

You ain't kiddin'.
I once had a 48 Improved Trapper in Cocobolo and FOOLISHLY sold it. Still wish I had that one.

EDIT.....here's the one that got away...BTW...now that i see the pic, it might have been Bocote, not Cocobolo.

[jerryd6818]

Some beauties there, Jerry!

You ain't kiddin'.
I once had a 48 Improved Trapper in Cocobolo and FOOLISHLY sold it. Still wish I had that one.

Umm, silly boy. The 48 is one of my most favorite patterns. I'm just showing Craig what words can't describe. I hope he comes back to let us know what his thoughts are on the subject so far.

[Craig Thompson]

Thank you all for your warm welcomes. I realized after posting that I had not properly introduced myself to the forum. My apologies for that lack of courtesy.

Thanks also for all the input.

I am an Engineer and always look for the reasons for a design. My first thought is that a single hinge would be more efficient and stronger. Or maybe two hinges is really stronger. Hmmm. I cannot imagine a scenario that one would want both blades of a two hinge knife open at the same time.

With a single hinge the opportunity is there to put a hole in the opposite end from the hinge for a lanyard.

It makes sense that two hinges would make the closed length greater for a given blade length. Also, if both nail nicks are on opposite sides, facing outward, then for a given hand position to open a blade, simply flipping the knife end for end allows the same hand position to open the other blade as well. That seems to me to be the most compelling reason for a two hinge design.

So far in the GEC line I am liking the #54 Big Jack.

Research continues.

Craig T.

[Railsplitter]

Interesting discussion. I like being able to open both blades "right handed" for lack of a better term. It's one of the many reasons that I like the GEC #35 Churchill pattern so much. I use the Sheepsfoot blade a lot more than the Clip blade and on this pattern it opens right handed just like the Clip blade does.

In most case if you want a Sheepsfoot blade a Stockman pattern offers the widest range of options but you often get a Sheepsfoot blade that opens left handed. There are of course, exceptions like the Buck Stockman patterns.


The Case/Bose Cattle knife is unique in this regard. It's a 3 blade, 2 spring knife with all the nail nicks accessible from the mark side. The large Clip and Sheepsoot open right handed and the small Clip opens left handed.

[gsmith7158]

Some beauties there, Jerry!

You ain't kiddin'.
I once had a 48 Improved Trapper in Cocobolo and FOOLISHLY sold it. Still wish I had that one.

Bruno that improved trapper #48 frame is one of the best knives GEC has put out. You best get another one of those. I believe there are still some of them in stag still at a few dealers.

[knife7knut]

One thing that glaringly stuck out in this post was the admonition about opening both blades at once on a single back spring knife and virtually every picture showed EXACTLY that scenario! Boy you guys like to live dangerously! I'm certain that not every one(if any)of the knives so displayed had half stops. Just sayin'

[bdev]

Some beauties there, Jerry!

You ain't kiddin'.
I once had a 48 Improved Trapper in Cocobolo and FOOLISHLY sold it. Still wish I had that one.

Bruno that improved trapper #48 frame is one of the best knives GEC has put out. You best get another one of those. I believe there are still some of them in stag still at a few dealers.

You're killing me! Stop enabling!
Maybe I'll consider it. I've been selling off some of my knives to pay for a car project I'm working on. 1978 Triumph Spitfire. I'll put the 48 on my short list when I have more cash for knives.

Back to the original post. Here's another GEC that fits the bill. A pattern 81 Bull Moose.

[313 Mike]

One of the reasons I appreciate a knife such as the muskrat, with blades on opposite ends, is that whichever way I happen to grab the knife out of my pocket, it is oriented to my hand correctly so I can open it up without having to flip the knife around. When I am at work and frequently pulling out my knife for use, this is a big benefit. Saves a lot of fiddling around...

[kootenay joe]

I am very partial to pen knives: single spring, blade at either end and 3 1/2" or smaller. They are slim and the best ones have the spring stronger at the master end and a bit softer for the smaller secondary blade. They are a marvel of precise construction. A larger single spring, blade at either end is called a "Double End Jack" knife. Patterns like the muskrat can be either a single spring knife or a 2 spring knife. The Schrade 77OT is a muskrat pattern and it was made both ways: as a single spring and a 2 spring knife.
All Hail the Single Spring knife !
kj

[tongueriver]

Going back to the o.p. (original post), are you wanting to collect, or use, or both? If you want one or more knives to use, what use are you thinking? How do you want to carry? Big or little or somewhere in between? Fancy bone, ivory, stag? Or utilitarian more economical covers? One or two more knives? 100 or more knives? If you are an engineer you know about setting up a check list of important priorities, kinda like a plus/minus, credit/debit list. The blades at one end or blades at each end are really not much more than secondary considerations, in my view. Do not forget that there are plenty of used or older knives out there that can rival anything you find all sparkly in their package. I am personally in favor of only 86 tang-stamps, from 1890 to 2018, almost all of which were made in the USA, but not all. 2 7/8 inches closed to 5 1/4 inches closed, two blades. Just my fun here, but not all in jest. Welcome to the disease.

[Craig Thompson]

Um...um...GAAAAAAH! Too many questions!

I was completely happy with my EDC Benchmade Griptillian, Leatherman Surge and little SAK Executive until recently. I wanted a nice pipe smoking tool and read about adapting a Doctor Knife. The flat end for crushing pills works well for tamping and the spatula makes a good scraper when the end has been rounded. So I bought a Case Doctor Knife and performed the modifications.

Then I started looking at other knives and...well...I wanted a pocket knife for EDC. I learned about Queen Cutlery in PA and wanted one. But since they were closed there was not much available. Then I found GEC and purchased a Tidioute Calf Roper. For me it is a great EDC knife.

THEN I was thinking of getting a slightly larger 2 blade knife, prompting me to ask my questions in the first post. I never paid that much attention to traditional pocket knives and I am beginning to learn about some of the design details.

So, despite being an avid appreciator of fine knives I will not be collecting or buying many. I bought the Calf Roper with Antique Autumn. I would love one with wood such as Desert Ironwood. But as I am learning they only make small quantities in batches so I may not ever see that style.

It would be nice if a simple liner lock were employed on the main blade but that does not seem to be very common.