Western whittler model and value?

[terryl308]

I just bought a box of 19 knives from a local guy and in it was this little black handled whittler. It has the double spring on the main blade and is stamped Western, Boulder Colo but no model number on the reverse side. the main blade is 2 1/4" long and has 2 more blades pivoting on the opposite end, one being a 1 1/2" clip point and the other is a 1 1/2" pen blade all with great snap. The handle scales are plain black synthetic material of some kind. Are these fairly rare and what is the model number and approx. value, thanks in advance Terry

[djknife13]

If the over all length of the knife is 3 1/4 inches, then it's a B364 made in the 1950's. The pins have been replaced so you need to try to determine what all has been done or changed on the knife. It all looks right to me from what I can see comparing it to the Western book by Harvey Platts. The repair hurt the value significantly. It wasn't a high end knife and with a obvious repair it's value is what it's worth as a carry knife.____Dave

[terryl308]

Dave, thanks for the quick response, I have the Platts book and overlooked the B364. got a question, how do you know the pins have been replaced? Just trying to learn how to spot this sort of thing. The only thing that doesn't look normal to me is it doesn't have a shield (maybe the scales have been replaced? they look the right age for the knife, so if they are replacements it must have done a long time ago, what do you think? thanks Terry, the good thing is I don't have much money involved, and I don't have many whittlers. LOL Oh yeah, it is 3 1/4" long.

[djknife13]

The color of the pins don't match the bolsters so I think someone replaced the nickel silver with steel. It seems strange to me that both appear changed. If a pin fails or wears so the knife doesn't open correctly then I could see that pin being replaced, but both puzzle me. I don't believe Western ever made a knife with pins that didn't match the bolster material. The shield doesn't bother me. Western did stuff like that, especially on fixed blades(changing the spacer color around or adding or skipping spacers at the will of the guy putting the knife together) but also little changes to the knives. I've found stockman with little variations. The Western book did a little hit and miss on recording what Western did in regards to changing the knives over the years so maybe they offered that knife without shields before or after yours. I think it just gives us a variation of that pattern to collect. A western expert joined AAPK a week or two ago. Maybe he will see this post and shed light on this conversation or even blow everything I believe is true out the window. Anyway, you have a nice Western split back whittler that may have had a little repair work. Western didn't make a ton of whittlers. They seemed to specialize more on the stockman pattern. I have a case full of them but only a few whittlers and I collected them for years and there was a ton of them sold around Minnesota in the 40's, 50's and 60's. We don't see much of the East Coast stuff around here.___Dave

[Colonel26]

I have some older Western folders with steel pins that show no signs of being apart. I think the knife original. But I've been wrong on more than one occasion.

Here's a jumbo whittler. For comparison.

Fwiw, I really like the little knife.

[terryl308]

Dave, I see what you're talking about, thanks for the lesson. The only abnormal thing I can see besides the color of the pins, is the center pin is a little proud on the mark side. Not much however, I have to use my thumb nail to feel it. But after looking at some other knives , that doesn't seem to be unusual. I wish I could drive up to Minn. and show you in person. I sure like it what ever it is. Feels good in my hand and has that appearance of a well carried little knife, if someone took it apart they new what they were doing. Thanks Col. for the photo of the jumbo. Terry

[Cowdiddly]

I agree with Wade. The knife has probably never been repinned. I have a couple of Westerns from that time frame that are exactly like that and from close inspection they have never been apart. They look exactly like the yours and Wades example. It just shows up sometimes in that era of knife.
ALL that discoloration means is the pins are not pure nickle. You can buy pin material that is pure nickle, 80% nickle and several various alloys even now.
A lot of your old German Solingen knives have this same dark pins too.

You have to remember one thing. In WW II nickle was a critical commodity for the massive war effort as was other metals and was rationed. Remember the 43-44 steel Pennies? Stuff got goofy around then for obvious reasons. I mean when you start losing 200 huge bombers in a single air raid or smoke 300-400 tanks in a single battle and you do not know how long your going to be at it, things get scarce and weird. When your even converting Singer sewing machine and Ford car plants to gun and armor plants, times are let's just say a little different. They even rationed sugar. Your Grandparents probably remember.

Around this time period and up to the early 50s era knifes is when you see a lot of Westerns with partial nickle pins. Ive seen it a lot and even on Western knives from that era that it would not have made sense to re pin. Western just used a harder pin material sometimes in the 40-50s. After about the early to mid fifties this anomaly went away.
In short It's just one of those Western thangs

[tongueriver]

I agree with Wade. The knife has probably never been repinned. I have a couple of Westerns from that time frame that are exactly like that and from close inspection they have never been apart. They look exactly like the yours and Wades example. It just shows up sometimes in that era of knife.
ALL that discoloration means is the pins are not pure nickle. You can buy pin material that is pure nickle, 80% nickle and several various alloys even now.
A lot of your old German Solingen knives have this same dark pins too.

You have to remember one thing. In WW II nickle was a critical commodity for the massive war effort as was other metals and was rationed. Remember the 43-44 steel Pennies? Stuff got goofy around then for obvious reasons. I mean when you start losing 200 huge bombers in a single air raid or smoke 300-400 tanks in a single battle and you do not know how long your going to be at it, things get scarce and weird. When your even converting Singer sewing machine and Ford car plants to gun and armor plants, times are let's just say a little different. They even rationed sugar. Your Grandparents probably remember.

Around this time period and up to the early 50s era knifes is when you see a lot of Westerns with partial nickle pins. Ive seen it a lot and even on Western knives from that era that it would not have made sense to re pin. Western just used a harder pin material sometimes in the 40-50s. After about the early to mid fifties this anomaly went away.
In short It's just one of those Western thangs

Well said. I was going to post something similar but not as articulately. I constantly see erroneous references to a particular knife as being '40s' vintage, when, of course, the war knives manufacture and marketing was a whole different ballgame. And the 1941 catalog shrank to a tiny scrap for patterns after the war. This was true for all the companies... that survived the depression and war.

[btrwtr]

I have noticed the difference in the color of pin material used by Western vs. the color of the bolsters. I do think that there is a definite difference between the pins and the bolsters though I don't think the pins are always steel as seen in early German, English and other foreign made knives. Some are steel pins and some I believe are just a different alloy content of the pins compared to the alloy bolsters.

What we call Nickel Silver is an alloy of copper, zinc and nickel that contains about 20% nickel and no silver at all. Of the metals used in nickel silver the nickel is the most costly so it would make sense that the nickel content would be lowered to cut costs. It does not make sense to me that the knives would have lower nickel content in the small amount of metal needed for the pins as compared to the large amount needed for the bolsters. I don't know of any factory produced knives that used pure nickel pins.

As previously said I agree this is just one of those Western things.

[djknife13]

I'm not doubting you guys because I sure don't know it all. I have collected Westerns for years and have dozens of them and just have never seen a Western with pins that don't match the bolsters. I also have never seen an American knife with mismatched bolster/pins and none of the several thousand in my collection don't match. I have several German folders with steel pins in nickel/silver and those are obvious and everybody knows they did that often. If they made some American knives during the war years with metals that were substituted because of the war effort, that would make sense. I've just never seen it. I have a number of fixed blade Westerns with the Bakelite pummels substituted for scarce Aluminum. I'd still love to hear someone from the Western plant give an opinion. One way or the other, it's a nice knife. ___Dave

[terryl308]

A big thank you to all that responded, I too wish someone that worked at the factory could have kept some records. But back then , they probably never dreamed that the little pocket knives would be collectable. I know I for one didn't think so. I was born in 1942 on a farm in Nebraska and only had one pocket knife at a time, used it or lost it, then went to town and bought another if I could afford it! Mostly Western, schrade, or Imperials. Like Dave said not much for new England knives around the "flatlands". They were just "farming tools" and got used a bunch. thanks again, Terry