Question about Damascus

[Steve Warden]

Aside from looking really cool, what are the pros and cons of Damascus steel vs. CV or SS?

[philco]

Stronger blades capable of getting very sharp.

[Dinadan]

Aside from looking really cool, what are the pros and cons of Damascus steel vs. CV or SS?

Stronger blades capable of getting very sharp.

A good question, Steve. Phil, I do not doubt your response is correct with reference to old blades (hundreds of years old), but has anyone actually tested some of these new Damascus blades against blades made with quality stainless or carbon steel? That would be very interesting to take blades of the same profile and test them to failure in order to see which is stronger. I guess that still would not be definitive unless we could verify that the tempering process was the same for both knives, but still a very interesting data point.

[knife7knut]

Sounds like a job for Coffecup Haven't heard from him recently;is he still around?

[orvet]

I have a bunch of Kershaw knives. They were our best selling brand in the cutlery store I managed in the 1980s.
I am familiar with the old and the newer Kershaw knives and how they cut and hold an edge.
I have a Damascus Leek that is the sharpest Kershaw I own and one of the sharpest knives I own. The knife is scary sharp, as scary sharp as the BG-42 Buck 110 I got from the Buck Custom Shop. This knife alone made me a believer in Damascus steel!

[royal0014]

My first question is; are there universally recognized set standards for what constitutes "damascus" steel,
as there are for 440C, 420J, AUS-8 etc. ?????

[jerryd6818]

My first question is; are there universally recognized set standards for what constitutes "damascus" steel,
as there are for 440C, 420J, AUS-8 etc. ?????

Royal, read this: http://www.thetruthaboutknives.com/2013 ... -damascus/

[Grump01]

If I may add a question.....I have been wondering if Damascus patinas like or similar to Carbon????

Thanks

[Steve Warden]

Great read, Jerry. Thanks.

[terryl308]

That is a hard question to answer because of the many different kinds of alloys used in todays Damascus. I use Devin Thomas Damascus for the most part and use his high contrast type (not stainless steel). Because of the cost, not many of my customers put a $800 Damascus knife through the riggers of a torture test. My opinion only is that a good quaiity high carbon or stainless blade would be the best choice, because of cost only. Damascus might hold a slight edge because of how it's made (two or more alloys forge welded together) causing a micro serrated edge when sharpened. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it gets pretty technical. Most of the Damascus blades I've made never get put to the test but are on display somewhere. I'm posting two knives that I made for a customer in Mo. a few years ago, one being devin Thomas Damascus ($500) and one O-1 tool steel ($300) , both have ivory handles. The O-1 has been used , but the Damascus one is still new condition and in his safe. Sure is pretty though!

[Steve Warden]

Beautiful knives, Terry.

[terryl308]

If I may add a question.....I have been wondering if Damascus patinas like or similar to Carbon????

Thanks

Grumpy, to answer Your question, if the Damascus is made from high carbon steel, not stainless, it will get a patina on it. Most of the high contrast Damascus I use is made from 1084 and 15n20. The 1084 will get a patina but the 15n20 probably will not because of the high nickel content. The 15n20 doesn't turn blue after etching and will remain silver color. (that is where you get the design from). Hope that makes sense to you. Terry I have posted a knife I made several years ago with the type of steel I am referring to, it was a billet of Devin Thomas Damascus 1084/15n20 and wart hog ivory handle.

[RobesonsRme.com]

Firstly, be careful what you buy, because some "Damascus" steel is not really Damascus steel, in other words, it has not been heated, hammered, folded, heated, hammered and folded dozens of times to create dozens or hundreds of layers of tempered steel, it has just been treated to make it look like Damascus steel.

Secondly, anybody here still hunt with a Damascus steel barreled shotgun?

Charlie Noyes

[knife7knut]

Firstly, be careful what you buy, because some "Damascus" steel is not really Damascus steel, in other words, it has not been heated, hammered, folded, heated, hammered and folded dozens of times to create dozens or hundreds of layers of tempered steel, it has just been treated to make it look like Damascus steel.

Secondly, anybody here still hunt with a Damascus steel barreled shotgun?

Charlie Noyes

In response to your first statement you are correct that there is a lot of,"Fauxmascus" steel running around today that is mostly etched like they do designs in steel.There are quite a few makers who forge Damascus blanks to sell to other makers(Jerry Rados is one)and their steels are top quality and very pricey.

Secondly I truly hope no one is hunting with a Damascus barreled shotgun unless they are using their own reduced charge loads.Most vintage Damascus barrels are very iffy when it comes to modern loads.JMHO

[terryl308]

Good point Charlie, I've been in the gun business most of my life and no one uses Damascus steel barreled shotguns unless they use a light load. However, the new quality made Damascus is a lot better than the old stuff because of the newer alloys used. Who knows what the imported knives are made of, the price should tell you something. Ebay is full of imported Damascus knives that run about $30-$40, I'll guarantee those are not good quality American made forge welded Damascus. Devin Thomas sells his billets by the inch and they start at $17 per inch for a billet. My cost for one knife is about $150 to $250 depending on the pattern and what it is made of, and how long the blade is. Terry

[btrwtr]

No easy answer to a very complicated question and many good responses here.

My personal opinion is that Damascus reentered the knife market more for looks than for performance but that has changed over time. I think the Damascus knives available today will run the A to Z gamut as far as quality is concerned. Very low quality to very high quality factory as well as custom knives.

For the billets the same holds true as for any annealed steel. The heat treating has to be correct in order to get the best performance from the steel. As Terry points out the Devin Thomas Damascus is highly regarded but if the heat treat is bad the blade will be too.

I always heat treat in an electric oven and for me it's like baking a cake. I just follow the recipe for the steel and trust that the cake comes out with the best possible results. Makers that forge and heat treat without the use of a modern electric oven really have to know their stuff to get it right. Far to tricky and complicated for me.

[Dinadan]

This has been a good discussion. Terry and Wayne, thanks for the imput from knife makers. When I look at Ebay I tend to think that for the cheaper knives, Damascus is just another marketing ploy. Looks cool (actually a lot of it does not look good in my opinion) but probably will not affect the knife's performance. But I have never tried one, so I think maybe I will buy one just to test it out. A cheap one!!

This seems to be the drift of this thread:

Damascus which is properly made from good quality steel is good stuff but may or may not be superior to good quality steel.

Proper heat treatment (tempering) is just as important for Damascus as for any steel.

A quality Damascus knife depends on the skill and knowledge of the knife maker in choosing and using the steel. Just like any other material.

[terryl308]

Wayne, You are 100% correct in saying that any steel is no better than the heat treat and tempering done. I too use a Paragon elec. oven for my heat treating and tempering. No guessing like with a magnet or color. And any good quality Damascus comes with the makers recommendations on heat treating temps. A good quality steel not properly heat treated will not turn out very good and will not hold an edge! I like Damascus for the appearance but don't use one myself. Terry

[RobesonsRme.com]

If I were looking to buy a knife with something other than "regular" steel, I'd buy another of David Boye's "dendritic" knives. Had one, but gave it to a man going to Romania on a mission trip and he left it with a Romanian Christian that was impressed with its quality.

Being metallurgically challenged, I do not really understand Boye's explanation for his dendritic process or why the final result is different than any other blade steel, but I know he sells a high quality knife that takes and holds a fine sharp edge and does not cost a fortune.

I'd buy another in a Minnesota Minute.

And I think that if you read up on the history of "Damascus Steel", you will find that no one has yet rediscovered the ancient secrets of the process.

Maybe we should refer to it all as "Pseudo-Damascus"

Charlie

[Gumshoe]

I have really enjoyed this discussion, since I know nothing about Damascus steel. Does anyone know about the Damascus blades that Case is using in some of their patterns?

Does Case make their own blades or do they buy them from a supplier?

What is the quality of the Case Damascus blades?

Just curious, Gumshoe

[terryl308]

I sent Case an email and asked about their Damascus but have not gotten a response yet, if I get one , I'll post their answer. I asked who if anyone made their Damascus or is it in house made and what is the alloy make up . terry

[HiPower]

my1st damascus bowie was from a texas maker whom resided in palestine tx. he wasbthe 3rd maker to learn the process in the u.s.a. the very 1st of d macus made in america was perfected by a man n amed moran whom lived in maryland number two was a texan named bill bagwell. if i remember devin thomas was the first to produce damascus in only stainless alloys. thomas steel held a superior edge. most damacus was forged from a high carbon steel & a billet of medium or lower carbon carbon metal. in 1978 my 1st was from hastains []don] in palestine tx. copy of an old english bowie from IXL 788.00 was the price &it came with tiger striped maple handle &sheath. by the 80s cheaper damascus was being sold by james parker. this stuff would only open one envelope & went dull. ed fowler& bill buke [master smiths] went on to perfect this steel type that really held a decent edge.several custom makers told me that very little damascus would be equal to a single carbon steel knife made by a decent custom maker as far as edge endurance quality. HiPower

[Lansky1]

Aside from looking really cool, what are the pros and cons of Damascus steel vs. CV or SS?

Pro's: Sharpens great & looks amazing

Con's:
- I had a Parker Damascus separate at the tip for no reason - wasn't using it hard or anything. Had to grind about 3/4" of an inch off it to get to stable steel.
- Also, it rusts easily - have to be careful with it.

[knife7knut]

my1st damascus bowie was from a texas maker whom resided in palestine tx. he wasbthe 3rd maker to learn the process in the u.s.a. the very 1st of d macus made in america was perfected by a man n amed moran whom lived in maryland number two was a texan named bill bagwell. if i remember devin thomas was the first to produce damascus in only stainless alloys. thomas steel held a superior edge. most damacus was forged from a high carbon steel & a billet of medium or lower carbon carbon metal. in 1978 my 1st was from hastains []don] in palestine tx. copy of an old english bowie from IXL 788.00 was the price &it came with tiger striped maple handle &sheath. by the 80s cheaper damascus was being sold by james parker. this stuff would only open one envelope & went dull. ed fowler& bill buke [master smiths] went on to perfect this steel type that really held a decent edge.several custom makers told me that very little damascus would be equal to a single carbon steel knife made by a decent custom maker as far as edge endurance quality. HiPower

Don Hastings made some beautiful knives before his untimely passing. Bill Moran was indeed the one who perfected and brought back the use of Damascus steel in the early 1970's. Met him once at a show in Connecticut and he was a very gracious and humble person. I loved the silver inlay wire work on his handles. Bill Bagwell as I recall was famous for his monster bowie and fighting knives.
On the East coast Jerry Rados supplied makers with some excellent Damascus stock;and I believe J.D.Smith from Boston made his own Damascus for his Middle Eastern knives.He made some incredible knives.
Some of the Damascus that Jim Parker used came from Fain Edwards who was a very credible knife maker. I have one of the Parker-Edwards Damascus survival knives they made in 1986 and the build quality is superb.

[KnifeSlinger#81]

I may be wrong but I may have seen somewhere that case gets their damascus (or at least some of it) from Devin Thomas. I only have one case with damascus, but it seems to perform better than their cv and ss, plus it looks way better.