Case XX 1940-1964 Stag 5165

needbucks · Post by **needbucks** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:41 pm

Hi all you knifer buds.

The father of a friend of a friend recently passed away and left a bunch of knives that he had gathered up over the past few decades. Knowing that I was into knives, they asked me to look at some of them and offer my opinion. The only really interesting one in this particular batch is a 5165 with the CASE XX tang stamp. It is not mint, has been used and sharpened and has a very small nick in the edge. The stag handle was in excellent shape. BUT, when I turned it over it has the most incredible Red Stag scale I have seen. I am sure this is one of those hard to find 5165's in the Red Stag. The front scale is doesn't have the red coloration anymore. Apparently the gentleman, though a collector was not one to obsess about caring for them. I took a few pics and would like to know what you would value it at for them. I told them the book in mint condition would be between 800 and 1000 with a realistic price of 425 to 500. In this condition, probably 130 to 200. Am I far off?

BTW, I didn't see the rest of the knives but if what they tell me is true, it is gonna be great. According to what I have heard, the gentleman had some Case knife axe combos, some Lile knives and even a Randall. These folks are not knife people so it might not be as good as it sounds but I am keeping my fingers crossed.

survivor711 · Post by **survivor711** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:03 am

Well depends, are you wanting to sell tonight?

mikek · Post by **mikek** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:14 am

needbucks. Thats a fine old flat ground stag your friend has there. When I see a knife such as this one I start to wounder about its history, the camp trips, the deer hunts, the owner standing over a nice eight point getting ready to do the job at hand. I would love to have that baby in my hunting coat.

As far as your guestion, The knife could very well reach the $200.00 mark on e-bay where anything is always possible but I doubt it would end up with a hunter. Someone will buff it to "factory mint", slap on a 300 word fancy description and relist it the same day.

It would be really nice to see the knife end up with someone who would appreciate it....... like yourself. Just my 2 cents, Mike

gmusic · Post by **gmusic** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:18 am

Lile; did I hear someone say Lile?

I would be most interested in those--------mint of coarse.

survivor711 · Post by **survivor711** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:31 am

Sargents 6th Ed. says 5165 is 1949--1955 master blade flat ground like the other poster says would be about 700. I was interested in this topic because I just got my own 5165SAB and I don't want to rub anything off it. It looks good the way it is. I think it is worth alot less than yours but still pretty to me. What do you all think about it? I really like your friends. It has some stories, I bet.

gmusic · Post by **gmusic** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:36 pm

Just for conversation sake, I'm going to post a couple of pictures here.

Now; let's say your a tool and die inspector at Case around oh, 1950. Your die man has just sent you two tang stamps to consider.
You examine them for alignment, spacing, uniformity, depth, all the things a fellow in that position may check for; after all, this stamp is going to used on thousands of Case knives.

Which one do you use?

survivor711 · Post by **survivor711** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:41 am

Well In looking at the two stamps or your two posted images, I would say the first is copied from the original poster and the nice clean shiny one is from another time. I don't know much about knives but I would say the original poster has the one that was used in 1950, but like I say I don't know alot. Now granted if I was just considering stamps, well your question may be a tad misleading. Oranges and Apples maybe!

gmusic · Post by **gmusic** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:13 am

Maybe I was a little vague.

Shinny has nothing to do with it. Both of these knives are from the same period, 1940-1964.

Closley compare the two stamps. Which one appears to have been done by hand, literaly one letter at a time?

The tang stamp is one of about five markers for a fake.

Is the blade stamped correctly on back?

Does the kick match the footprint on the inside liner?

Do the backspring and blade line up proper?

Do the scale pins appear to have been reset?

Just to mention a few! For most things one has to have the knife in hand to read. I'm not an expert either, but I have been collecting vintage Case knives for 15 years. I've seen my share of, shall we say, modified knives. But lord knows I've mis-read knife pictures before.

gary

Sauconian · Post by **Sauconian** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:20 am

gmusic, I'd think that first one looks pretty good. Especially when you think how hard it is to hold those individual punches nice and straight. And then you can't really see how they line up unless you lay your head down on the bench, and close one eye. And of course hitting each one exactly the same each time...........I think I'd pass.

Fran

gmusic · Post by **gmusic** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:40 am

This is the knife Survivor posted, compare the stamp.

Post me a picture from any publishing, with a stamp like the knife I'm questioning, and I'll concede.

Maybe Case just got a little sloppy with that run

Blade Runner · Post by **Blade Runner** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:13 pm

The stamp looks good to me.
Take Care
Gary

gmusic · Post by **gmusic** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:28 pm

Allow me to point out exactly what it is about this tang stamp that's troubling to me.

Note how "heavy" or deep the C and E are compaired to the A and S.

Note how wide or bold those same two letters are.

Note the A nearly touching the C.

Note the E out of alignment with the other letters.

I've seen hundreds and hundreds of tang stamps from the XX preiod, and this one doesn't look right! JMO

useem · Post by **useem** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:49 pm

gmusic, i see what you are talking about now. I also agree with you. It does not look right.

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:17 pm

Yes, I see what you';re saying, now that really bothers me

gmusic · Post by **gmusic** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:14 am

Hey guys,

Right or wrong, all I offer here is my opinion. I hope I have not caused any hard feelings; my intention was to get people to look closer at the details.

I have been “burned” several times in my collecting experience, and it’s my duty to pass that knowledge on. I wish I had belonged to a group like this when I started, it would have saved me some dough!

The Case XX period, because of the simplicity of the tang stamp, is no doubt the most counterfeited era of Case knife history.

Again, I apologize if I offended anyone.

Happy hunting……………………………

gary

survivor711 · Post by **survivor711** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:27 am

Now you got me looking a little closer. And I am admitting honestly that I am really learning about these things. I am posting a snapshot of the back of my blade and wonder why the knife needbucks posted doesn't seem to have the stamp on the backside like the one I have. Any ideas? Also, should I just oil mine or try to clean it? I really appreciate all comments! Surv

survivor711 · Post by **survivor711** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:51 am

I tell you I appreciate the comments about my knives because I too have spent maybe more than a knife is worth and I am finding all kinds of stories. The more I learn, the more I save and the better value I get. Common sense to me. Hey my pride may be a little hurt when I get burned but at least I know the truth and anytime I can know something for certain I am better off. You won't hurt my feelings by telling me something. You telling me may actually help me by me not perpetuating a bad thing unknowingly. So I appreciate it!

gmusic · Post by **gmusic** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:11 am

That is nice 5165SAB you have there! Cleaning is a personal preference. We have guys here that wouldn’t think of it, and then we have guys like me.
I like nothing more than having a vintage knife that looks as if it just came out of the box. That, to me is cool! You can do that with some knives, others you can’t. Will the overall condition of the knife support cleaning it. In other words, is it still going to be a “used” knife after I do this? If you think you may want to clean a knife ask yourself this;
Is the blade 100%, are the scales perfect, is any scratch, scare, or ding going to show after I clean it. If the answers are Y, Y, and N, then you have a candidate for cleaning, IMO.

When I say clean, I mean a polishing to remove tarnish, and that is it. If you have pits from rust and such, that’s another story.

Although, cleaning a knife that is not prefect is not a bad thing. Many people like a knife untarnished, and don’t mind a few signs of use.

It’s such a personal thing.

As far as value one way or the other who knows.

If the knife qualifies “as new” though! There is only one way to show that knife!

survivor711 · Post by **survivor711** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:23 am

OH MY! OHHH MY! I can only hope to get close to something like that. That is so pure looking. Geez Now I am close to sinning, "Thou shall not covet......" Wow! Thanks for sharing. I will come back to show that knife! Thx.