Studying old knives is fun!!

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:03 pm

A fellow on the"other" forum sent me this knife for an opinion (like I'm an expert or something

) as to its authenticity etc. The exercise was such fun, I thought I'd share it with you appreciators of older knives!
It is stamped Hibbard Spencer Bartlett Co. and has Christmas Tree (CT) celluloid handles. Looking at the outside, I noticed the main backspring pin didn't match the liners, or the handle pins, so right away, it looks like a re-pin or a re-handle. American knives, with few exceptions, will match the pins and liners. Nickel with nickel, and brass with brass.
Looking inside (sorry I couldn't get a pic of this) I see signs of holes, filled, where a shield would be, so it looks more like a rehandle. Then some marring on the bolsters doesn't match the handles, so this confirms new Cell handles. Those marks would surely have damaged the cell also.
The punch looks like a Camillus, so I looked in my meager stash of Camillus knives, and lucked out, as you can see. Camillus is known to have made knives for HSB. I've never seen CT on either, but I certainly haven't seen them all.
Verdict: Made by Camillus, and re-handled. Otherwise, a good old, solid snappy knife!!

useem · Post by **useem** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:29 pm

Yup. I think you called it right

See, the guy who sent it to you knew what he was doing.

PA Knives · Post by **PA Knives** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:55 pm

Nice lesson for all of us. I hope that new comers learn the pin and liner portion as it is an easy one to remember. Great pics I might add to. I wish I could teach waynorth something but I think he is way beyond most of is. Thanks

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:46 pm

PA, you are teaching me TONS!! As I pore through your book a second time, I am transported to the past!! I hope you are working on the second one!!!

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:07 am

charlie, reminding us or teaching us, it's a pleasure having so many knowledgable knife guys who are willing to teach and learn. a lot of "new" knives we collect are pretty much flaw free. i started collecting any old knife(usa) and leaning toward case. major learning curve. knowing the little things like corresponding metal dings to handles is an excellent test. if i had known that when i started 25 yrs ago i would have saved a lot of pain.

ps david, read twice and i don't think i'm done.

pps i have questions. will pm

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:24 am

Excellent job of "reading the knife" Charlie.
Looks like you are spot-on in your analysis.

Thanks for sharing your detective works with us!
Dale

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:19 pm

Thanks for the interesting lesson upnorth. Very educational::tu::

s-k

mooseman · Post by **mooseman** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:56 pm

It is true that most of the time, the pins match the liners, but there is one old knife that I am very familiar with that does not. I have a large collection of e.c. simmons keen kutter scout knives, and every one I have seen that is made by simmons has brass liners, two brass pins, and a nickel silver or steel main pin

nifbuf · Post by **nifbuf** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:58 pm

Charlie,
You always start some good subjects for discussion. Often they make me go to my collection and get reaquainted, this was no exception. I am posting, just as information, three antique Schatt & Morgans, not doctors knives as some people call them but congress jacks as Levin calls them. All have brass liners. The brown celluloid and the bone have brass pins while the red shield has NS pins.
I have a dozen or so old Schatt pearl handled knives, all but two have brass liners and NS pins, the other two are fancy with NS liners and pins. I have also noticed that some of the old stag handles knives have brass liners and NS pins.
So maybe there are no rules here but thanks for getting me back to my collection on a pleasent Sunday afternoonhere in Georgia.

David Clark

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:16 pm

very nice david!

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:32 pm

nifbuf wrote:Charlie,
You always start some good subjects for discussion. Often they make me go to my collection and get reaquainted, this was no exception. I am posting, just as information, three antique Schatt & Morgans, not doctors knives as some people call them but congress jacks as Levin calls them. All have brass liners. The brown celluloid and the bone have brass pins while the red shield has NS pins.
I have a dozen or so old Schatt pearl handled knives, all but two have brass liners and NS pins, the other two are fancy with NS liners and pins. I have also noticed that some of the old stag handles knives have brass liners and NS pins.
So maybe there are no rules here but thanks for getting me back to my collection on a pleasant Sunday afternoon here in Georgia.

David Clark

Glad you are enjoying yourself! It's pleasant up here too, David, in the Great White North! 70 degrees F.
I guess there are a lot of exceptions on the pin thing. I go by the knives I collect, and Case and Schrade tended to keep that "matching" tradition. Most of my Empires are matched as well.
You always have some wonderful knives to show us David; don't be a stranger!
Charlie