What's wrong with the knives made in China?

[fergusontd]

I bought a Chinese Sharade fixed blade for $15 at a garage sale, it seems to be real solid knife. It came witha real nice leather sheath. ftd

[junebug]

I HAVE HAD OPPOSITE EXPERIENCE........

AGAIN...MY OWN EXPERIENCE!!!

MY ROUGH RIDERS ARE BETTER MADE IMPO ,THAN ANY OF THE "NEW" CASEXX STUFF I HAVE RECEIVED........ALL POSTED HERE WITH COMPLAINTS ABOUT NO WALK AN TALK BY ME........I HATE NO SNAP!!!!

I WOULD BUY A ROUGH RIDER FOR A USER BEFORE I WOULD A "NEW" CASEXX...AGAIN MY PERSONAL OPINION!!!!! AS I HAVE LIVED AND LEARNED,THROUGH MY OWN EXPERIENCE.

SAFE QUEEN/COLLECTION - YES, CASEXX WOULD WIN OUT.....BUT I DONT BUY THAT WAY,SO THATS OUT FOR ME......

AND BY "NEW" CASEXX I MEAN: THE ONES MADE ABOUT 2000 TO NOW...AS THOSE ARE THE ONES I BOUGHT...AND EVERY ONE HAD AN ISSUE.


ON A EDC/USER FOR ME....MADE IN AMERICA,GERMANY,JAPAN,ITALY,ECT......IS ONLY A BONUS
IF I LIKE IT'S LOOKS....IT DOES THE JOB WELL............WELL,IT KINDA BECOMES ONE OF THE KNIFE FAMILY TO ME.....AND HENCE THE SPOKE OF "SOUL" TO ME.


hope no one thinks i am arguing.....i am not in any way!!!!!....i find this TOPIC interesting!!!!and the typed words may make it seem that way some times

do you guys lump TAIWAN in with CHINA?????????
AS I DO NOT

PS- I TOO AM AMERICAN AND SUPPORT AMERICA!!!
NO NEED FOR ANY CRAZYNESS/PM's,THANKS!

[junebug]

HEY FTD.......we posted at same time....and i missed yer knife

NICE DAGGER!!!!!

[Dinadan]

I figure the Chinese aren't sure enough of their knives to put a permanent stamp on them that you can't erase so people won't know where it came from. Of course my Japanese Canittler that I've carried for 20 years lost it's Japan stamp too so I suppose that doesn't mean much.

I have thought that if a company is ashamed to put the name of the country where their knives are made on the knives, then maybe they should not make them there. I respect A G Russell for stamping China on his knives right below his name. Right or wrong, he is not hiding anything. Also, in his catalog the country of origin is plainly stated.

At the opposite extreme, Rob Klass is unwilling to even stencil the word China on his knives, and puts a sticker on the blade. That may not be deceptive, but it sure as heck is not standing up for his product.

[junebug]

AWESOME PICS!!!
THANKS FOR ADDIN THEM!!!

[orvet]

do you guys lump TAIWAN in with CHINA?????????
AS I DO NOT

I do not consider Taiwan the same as China.
One has a free government one has a communist government that subsidizes its factories.

I carry an older Columbia River Knife and Tool M16 – 14 that is made in Taiwan.
The AUS-8A steel is excellent! It takes and holds a superb edge, and I love the chisel grind.
It is far superior, than anything I have seen from China, including other CRKT knives from China.

[junebug]

CORRECT & I AGREE ,DALE
I REALLY LIKE ALOT OF CRKT's STUFF,HAVE SEVERAL

[treefarmer]

Let me chime in on the Taiwan side. I found a Buck tactical lookin' thing in my recliner several years ago, seems like it has 177 on the tang. I thought it belonged to my son-in-law, he said no and then we contacted everyone we could think of who had visited, no one claimed the knife. After closer examination, at just the right angle as you open the blade, TAIWAN is seen stamped on the blade .
I started clipping this "thing" in my breast pocket of my bib overalls. It is a real workhorse! Takes a good edge, broke the tip, re profiled it, it's the "key" for one of our old farm tractors (short across the solenoid poles), gives my ol' #49 Queen lots of rest in the RFP . It's like a Timex watch.....I don't think I would buy one if I loose this one, I'd just dig in the POS box and try another oriental prize to spare my USA made knives .

Before we became accumulators of knives, the pocket knife was a tool and was used as needed. Lots of folks didn't have the luxury of choosing what knife got "light duty" and which one had to do the hard jobs like we do today, just a thought........
Treefarmer

[coffeecup]

if a case can be made that pure economics and better value comes from an import ill consider it. better price doesn't mean better value. the fact is, American knives are superior quality.

/sigh/ The statement that "American knives are superior quality" is not a true statement without further qualification. Without specifying which American knives and which imported knives are being compared, and on what factors quality is being compared, that statement is meaningless at best; more often, it seems to be deliberately misleading.

Let's look at cars instead for a moment, and consider a couple statements to illustrate what I mean.

"American cars are superior in quality to German cars." True? Maybe--are we comparing an SRT Viper to a Trabant (an American sportscar to an East German made econo-box having a 2-cylinder 2-stroke engine, and body panels made of plastic), or a Ford Pinto to a Trabant? And what factors are we looking at? Comfort? Fuel economy? Acceleration? Crash safety? The answers are different.

If, when comparing knives made in different countries, we look within a class ("sodbusters" for example) and within a price range (retailing for $25-40 USD) and look at specific factors ("hardness of steel" or "diameter of pivot rivet" for example) and define how we are going to measure those factors (perhaps "hardness on Rockwell C scale" or "diameter of rivet where it passes through blade") and what we are going to define as "better", then we can actually compare "quality".

If looked at in such a manner, comparing objective quantifiable factors there is often little significant difference--and those differences often come down to matters of personal preference. Looked at this way, there is often little objective difference between knives made in different countries, and selection often comes down to matters of personal preference.

Back to the previous example but in a higher price range, there is little difference between the version of the sodbuster made by GEC and the one that A.G. Russell has made for him (in China, as I recall). Choice might come down to preference for one blade shape or handle material, or for a slightly harder or softer blade, or between blade steels.

Questions of "better price" and "better value" are best looked at in a similar fashion, considering the whole cost of ownership; US-made knives don't always come out "best" in those comparisions, either.

[junebug]

great post,Coffecup
makes sense to me

[knifetime]

I have came across one made in China that I forgot I had.
Rough Rider stag with blade etch, I like this knife a lot, for one it was from my wife for B-Day, 6 years ago I do believe, and it has some very thick stag with a cool etch. I have saw another one like my knife with a eagle on the blade.

[afishhunter]

Lets see....

The Chinese government owns the factories that employ communist slave labor
The Chinese government controls the Chines military and profits for things like knife sales end up going to the Chinese's Military
The Chinese Military routinely war games against US Military
The Chinese helped North Korea make Nuke weapons. China in turn helped, and is helping Iran develop theirs.
The American cutlery companies, that employ America workers are trying to survive...

There is more, but Phil said play nice

Lets see ... China has the fastest growing economy in the world ... you don't get that with state owned factories or slave/child labor.

Buck, Case, and other "American" cutlers sell knives they have made off shore - in China - to consumers in the USA.

I own seven or eight Rough Riders, and a Chinese made Schrade Uncle Henry LB7, and a Marbles rendition of the all steel Camillus "Demo" knife/Army utility knife.
Guess what? All have blades that hold an edge, all came sharp enough to shave with, the LB7 not only has the blade perfectly centered, but also has ZERO blade play side to side or up and down. None of the Rough Riders I own (seven slip joints, one lock back, so far) have any blade play, the slip joints have plenty of "walk and talk" (ditto the Marbles).

In today's global economy, pretty much everything made has parts/components made in China, if not fully made there. Your iPhone, for instance, may have been designed in the USA, and assembled in Mexico, but 99% of what is inside that phone was made in China.

"Buy American" today does not mean what it did in the 50's and 60's. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, Subaru ... all have plants un the US. You would be hard pressed to find a "foreign" car actually made in its country of origin these days; the obvious exception being the limited production Italian sports cars.

Oh well. Haters are gonna hate.

[afishhunter]

I like the Rough Riders. I became aware of them on another knife forum, checked them out, and ordered "a few".

So far, I have the large and small sunfish, (the large has become my favorite EDC slip joint) an electrician, two blade Barlow, a bone handled lock back, and a 5 blade stockman
All have zero blade play, have centered blades, and no blade strike on the liners or other blades. (I am a truck driver. The stockman was delivered after my last home time, so I've not seen it yet) fit and finish is impeccable, all were shaving sharp out of the box.

Rough Rider offers more patterns for general use than anyone else I know if, and do not make limited to 1,000 (give or take) "production" runs of over priced "safe queen" collector" knives, as Case and GEC seem to have a habit of.

[jerryd6818]

Lets see....

The Chinese government owns the factories that employ communist slave labor
The Chinese government controls the Chines military and profits for things like knife sales end up going to the Chinese's Military
The Chinese Military routinely war games against US Military
The Chinese helped North Korea make Nuke weapons. China in turn helped, and is helping Iran develop theirs.
The American cutlery companies, that employ America workers are trying to survive...

There is more, but Phil said play nice

Lets see ... China has the fastest growing economy in the world ... you don't get that with state owned factories or slave/child labor.

Buck, Case, and other "American" cutlers sell knives they have made off shore - in China - to consumers in the USA.

I own seven or eight Rough Riders, and a Chinese made Schrade Uncle Henry LB7, and a Marbles rendition of the all steel Camillus "Demo" knife/Army utility knife.
Guess what? All have blades that hold an edge, all came sharp enough to shave with, the LB7 not only has the blade perfectly centered, but also has ZERO blade play side to side or up and down. None of the Rough Riders I own (seven slip joints, one lock back, so far) have any blade play, the slip joints have plenty of "walk and talk" (ditto the Marbles).

In today's global economy, pretty much everything made has parts/components made in China, if not fully made there. Your iPhone, for instance, may have been designed in the USA, and assembled in Mexico, but 99% of what is inside that phone was made in China.

"Buy American" today does not mean what it did in the 50's and 60's. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, Subaru ... all have plants un the US. You would be hard pressed to find a "foreign" car actually made in its country of origin these days; the obvious exception being the limited production Italian sports cars.

Oh well. Haters are gonna hate.

Except for that first one (and I don't know the facts on it), there's nothing you said that isn't true. BUT true or not, I don't have to like it. My opinions are the one thing the "thought police" (U.S. Government) still doesn't control.

Welcome to AAPK. Glad to have you aboard.

[flangster]

Topics like these inevitably tweak folks' sensibilities. I have enjoyed the candid exchange of views above. You all are an articulate, thoughtful bunch. More importantly, the discussions have been civil -- which is a rare thing these days. So: a tip of the hat to the AAPK group.

In my case, the American-made knives that I have have an extra undefinable "something" that comes along with them. Maybe it comes down to pride that the craftsmen in my country are doing such a good job -- you know, a kind of "go team!" reaction. And: the folks at GEC make it easy to be proud of their craftsmanship and products. For me, that extra bit of pride is worth something in the cost -- I don't think I have ever found a GEC knife I liked and even checked the price of a competing Chinese product (or French, or German or Japanese for that matter).

I do own some Chinese-made knives: a stainless and aluminum Buck Flashpoint that I keep in my life jacket and an AG Russel Wharncliff Sowbelly I recently bought as an experiment. And I also carried a French Opinel for a couple of years before I discovered GEC and Queen Cutlery. Oh, and there is a Moki lockback somewhere in my drawer, which is Japanese-made, and a couple of German Bokers, as well as a Swiss Army Knife. As tools, they do what I need them to -- never had a complaint (other than the shape of the AG Russel, which doesn't fit my hand as well as I would like -- but I think, ironically, that results from decisions by the U.S. designer). My other 50 or so knives are American made -- although I know that "collection" makes me a piker compared to some of you folks.

However, we do live in an increasingly interconnected world, where the purchase of a hamburger at McDonalds, an oil change for my car, or the decision to repaint the front of the house have economic ripple effects that go across national boarders in a routine commercial way and about which I don't stress over too much. I will also say though that until recently, I had no collection of pocket knives at all -- I just wasn't sensitized to the question. Now that I have bought a "nicer class of knives", I don't think I will be able to go back to an impulse purchase a random pocket-knife off the display box next to the cash register at my local Agway. You all have ruined me! Or educated me. And for that I thank you all.

[junebug]

flangster.........I THINK I can help you... .....

send that MOKI & RUSSELL to me, ya know what they say.... OUTTA SIGHT OUTTA MIND!


always here ta help boys...hehehhehehe

[wazu013]

flangster,
TO AAPK It sounds like you have a nice collection going. Please post some pictures I'd love to see them and I think others would as well
wazu013

P.S. Forward that Moki to me. I'll see that junebug gets it

[Just Plain Dave]

I think the heat treat is a bit spotty on some of the China knives.
But if you get a good one they can take it for the most part.


They just lack soul. A few of mine are flawlessly executed but just don't feel like a US knife.

[Ruffinigold]

OK folks..........let's be nice.

Phil

10-4

Jeez ... that makes me hungry .

I don't have a problem with knives from China . Basically , I use them for work knives . Currently , I'm abusing the heck out of a Kershaw 1 ton for my work knife [ made in China ] . China is producing better knives than in the past , I mean I wouldn't even have considered one as a work knife because they were so poor a decade or more ago . I cant see collecting them but that's just me . I like old Keen Kutter and IXL pocket knives .. stuff like that , as far as collecting , which I don't do enough of .

[PigSticker]

I've bought a lot of China mades in the last ten years--thing is if you compare them to knives that sold for the same $ 20-30 years ago that are U.S. made they are nicer knives--only U.S. knives you could buy that cheap were Colonial's or Imperial's or Ideal's and we all know how those were made--but I collect them all that's part of collecting knives to me--years ago I bought only U.S.--since I quit working I buy the best I can afford from week to week and have more fun doing it & a lot of times it will be made in China--I own more weak springed old never carried never sharpened U.S. knives than any they look good on Ebay but there's a reason they never got carried it's because they was crap made & whoever owned them years ago didn't like them so put them away--My favorite China's are Spydreco & CRKT hard to beat for the $$

[Baykeeper]

I have a few foreign knives; Chinese, Japanese, Pakistani, English, Spanish. as well as many, (probably too many), USA knives. Like mentioned above earlier, Chinese manufacturing gets better and better, and they respond to consumers expectations more and more. I worked in the musical instrument business for years, and I watched Chinese instruments go from junk to some becoming collectible for their quality in the span of ten years, so they can and do know how to produce quality products....and yes, they also produce a lot of junk, granted. I can't say any of my Chinese knives are quite as good as my USA knives, but I like sharp things in general, so a good knife IS a good knife, wherever it came from, and I have some good Chinese-made slip joint knives. At this point in my life I want to keep and preserve the small collection of USA slip joints and fixed blades that I have. I want to eventually hand them down to my grandson, so my EDC is usually one kind of foreign knife or another, though I also always have a small Case, Buck, or Schrade in my watch pocket. I've had to do some work on a few of the Chinese knives, and tighten & center the blades as needed, but one of my constant companions is a Chinese-made Wild Boar saddle horn two blade razor knife that fits my hand perfectly, holds and edge, and lives in a sheath on my belt; it is simply the handiest knife I ever owned. I spent a couple of hours tightening the blades & rounding sharp edges off the top & bottom, then re-filing & refinishing the bolsters, but ended up with a good, tight-bladed, very sharp every day knife. So kick me for using, AND liking a Chinese-made knife....but when ya do I'll cut yer toe off with that razor blade!

BTW: The Chinese didn't steal our manufacturing jobs, our government and our corporate giants, (you know, the ones that own our government), GAVE those jobs to China to make an extra buck per unit more on the stuff we buy. The best we can do is buy our Chinese junk from red blooded Americans, at least some of the money stays here that way. My two cents.

[whitebuffalo58]

Might as well love 'em, the days coming when they'll be the only choice we have left.
I think the only things keeping the American cutlery industry alive now, are collectors and a handful of hardcore old timers that refuse to buy anything NOT made in the U.S. When that generation's gone, there won't be that many left to care.
Ever since Bic came out with those throw away plastic lighters, we've become a disposable nation. We buy cheap junk, use it, abuse it, throw it away and go buy another cheap piece of junk.
All through our history, Americans have found a way to compete with foreign manufacturing and keep their respective industries alive. The tariffs around the turn of the century, Henry Ford in the 20's and 30's and, say what you will about there shell handled knives, but even Imperial and others like them found a way in the 30's, 40's and on into the 70's. But somewhere down the road, the masses quit caring.
I guess if you think about it in another context though, these same folks who kept industry alive in this country, may very well have contributed to our current way of thinking. They may have made it TOO easy for folks to have the things they have. Where's the pride in owning a Model T, if 2/3 of the people around you have one too? You can apply that pride of ownership to virtually everything in our everyday lives. A washing machine, is just a washing machine and a knife is just a knife. The vast majority could care less where it was made, just as long as they have one.
In my humble opinion, that's the way it's gonna be in the foreseeable future and it saddens me to say it, but this attitude all seems to have deepened drastically within my own generation and I don't see anything in the next to lead me to believe it's gonna change. At least not for the better and most likely it's gonna get worse.
I don't know if all of this makes any real point to the conversation, maybe it's just rantings from an old fool. But until the day comes when Americans themselves believe in "Made in the U.S.A.", then "Made in the USA" isn't going to mean anything to the rest of the world either.
As for me, I still say I'd rather pay for and own just one $100 knife made in the U.S., then ten knives made anywhere else. But since we are having this conversation, it's pretty obvious that those of us that still think that way are the exception, not the rule and we can't live forever. So I guess, go ahead and buy made in China, there's nobody gonna stop you.

WB, having one of those days!

[Baykeeper]

Talk about Chinese knives! A buddy who used to work in a hardware store dropped by the other day, and knowing I like knives gave me this handful of foreign-made knives he had picked up over the years, (first photo). The one on the far right is a "Coast" brand, Chinese-made, 4" folding hunter. I put it on my bench, tightened the blade by squeezing the bolster, (wrapped in leather), in a vice, re-peened the hinge pin, then refinished the bolsters. After sharpening it has became one of the nicest feeling knives I have ever held in my hand. Very tight blades, tight lock, smooth curved handles, and now, sharp as a razor. The third from the left is a USA Schrade, but I suspect it is a Taylor Brands model, so who knows where it was actually made, (USA is stamped on the hilt, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything). I tightened up and sharpened all of them, so now I have a handful of "give away" knives.

Is it ok to like a Chinese-made knife if it's free, or does that make me a bad person for owning, (and enjoying), a supposedly-junk knife?

The second photo is from a recent swap meet run, spent $15 for all four. The fixed blade is a Kabar, needs a pommel, but the blade is good, and has a nice leather handle, I'll find a pommel one of these days and will repair it. The razor knife is Chinese "Wild Boar" brand, after tightening and rounding off of some sharp edges it is now a tight, very sharp, and very useful & handy knife to have. I have a sheath which fits it well, so I frequently carry it. The white-handled slip joint is Pakistani, has solid brass bolsters, is centered, and has spotless, very sharp blades. The Barlow is stamped "Ireland" but nothing else, so who knows; it has plastic handles, so that will be a project to put nice wood handles on eventually, (I have some Ovangkl around somewhere, would make really nice knife handles).
So, I'm confused. According to the purists, I am supposed to regard these as "junk" and walk away because they aren't USA-made? C'mon fellas, live a little, embrace the "global" economy.
Getting up early again tomorrow and heading out to the swap, maybe some more Chinese "junk" treasures are awaiting me there.

[jerryd6818]

I've seen bunches of opinions expressed here regarding knives made on the Pacific Rim Mainland. Everybody has one. Unless I just missed it, what I don't recall seeing is anyone telling others how they should think nor what they should buy. Opinions? Yes. Recommendations? Yes. But as far as telling you what to spend your money on or what to stick in your pocket? No.

Welcome to AAPK where everyone has an opinion and few are reluctant to express theirs. Glad to have you aboard.

[Baykeeper]

I've seen bunches of opinions expressed here regarding knives made on the Pacific Rim Mainland. Everybody has one. Unless I just missed it, what I don't recall seeing is anyone telling others how they should think nor what they should buy. Opinions? Yes. Recommendations? Yes. But as far as telling you what to spend your money on or what to stick in your pocket? No.

Welcome to AAPK where everyone has an opinion and few are reluctant to express theirs. Glad to have you aboard.

Haven't seen it on this thread, but definitely have seen tantrums, tirades, arguments and downright belittlement regarding non-USA knives on other threads/forums. This is the only forum I've found that actually has a discussion on the subject where you don't get yelled down, other forums will often just ignore you completely if you mention owning Chinese knives. Somehow you're not a real "collector" if you mention Chinese-made on those forums. Recently saw a new member of another forum simply post, "what is wrong with Chinese knives"?, on a thread, and the one single response he got was , "BECAUSE THEY ARE MADE IN CHINA!!!". It's refreshing to find a forum, and a thread which welcomes such discussion, and I'm enjoying discussing my rusty finds....Wish me luck at the swap meet!