Different Steel

Forensic Jim · Post by **Forensic Jim** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:17 pm

Can I get someone to give me an idea of the different types of steel, and the pro's and cons for each? Which makes for a better knife blade?
D2 steel
1095 tool steel
440 C steel
Much appreciated!

Ringmaster · Post by **Ringmaster** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:42 pm

Hey Pal,

Well the study of steel could easily take the rest of your life, there's that much to it. Narrowing it down to knife blade steels helps quite a bit. There are some good texts available, about as exciting as watching paint dry.

Quickly tho',

1095 is a basic high-carbon steel. All the 10 series are the same formula, with the last two digits being carbon content. 1095 has .95% carbon added. Which is the hardening agent in steel, to begin with. 1084 is very popular with people who forge knives.

D2 is an alloy steel, with 1.55% carbon, and 11.5% (roughly) chromium added for stain resistance. Along with vanadium, manganese and molybdenum. It's what's classified as a "Cold Work" tool steel. As opposed to "Hot Work" - the heat being generated by speed (think drill bits or milling machines). D2 makes a good knife, but it will rust and stain - just not as readily.

440C is a stainless steel. With 1.2% carbon and 18% chrome it resists rust very well. Just because a maker sez it's "440 Stainless" doesn't mean it's 440C, there is also an A and a B - they're cheaper, but the carbon content isn't as high.

The quality of any of these steels made into a knife blade is "capable" of being a darn good knife - it just depends on how the steel is heat-treated and tempered.

1095 - will rust, while you watch it. (If neglected)
D2 - resists rust, but not stainless.
440C - true stainless, it takes a lot of abuse, but will finally rust if neglected.

Take a look at this guys' website, for a sneak peek at steels :
http://ajh-knives.com/metals.html

By no means is that all there is to learn, but it's a good, concise essay on knife quality steels.

JR

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:37 pm

That was a nice, concise explanation.

A. G. Russell also has a nice side by side comparison guide.....

http://www.agrussell.com/knife_informat ... index.html

Probably as many different opinions on this subject as there are beers.

Bill

Forensic Jim · Post by **Forensic Jim** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:18 pm

Ringmaster thanks for that interesting, concise explanation on the different types of steel.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:54 pm

Excellent explanation of some of my favorite steels.

I have gotten 1095 from admiral steel, D2 from various sources, and my favorite stainless is CPM S30V from Crucible Paricticle. The addition of 4% Vandium provides a steel structure with an abundance of Vanadium Carbides as well as as Chromium Carbides. The abundance of Vanadium Carbdes is thought to make a much tougher steel with long edge retention. I have not worked with it yet except for using a couple knives, well, put them through their paces so to speak. I do have several bars of CPM S30V on hand.

A couple others I like is 0-1 and L-6. 0-1 makes a great knife and for beginners it is the perfect steel as it can be very forgiving for heat treatment, if it's not right the first time, it allows for re-do.

Ringmaster · Post by **Ringmaster** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:05 pm

Right on, Hukk !

O-1 was good enough for John Nelson Cooper, it oughta be good enough for an Arkansas hillbilly like me... the last count I had, which was before he died, Mr. Cooper had built something over 30,000 knives in his career. His Iron Mistress is, to me, one of the definitive bowies of all time. He sold a grunch of them to movie stars, and the like.

The thing I like about O-1 is the combination of hardness and polishability (is that a word ?). You can get D2 harder, but it just won't polish (for me, neway).

L-6 is a great, easy steel also. The forgers around here used it a lot, when there were plenty of sawmill "cast offs" to be had. Seems like the "hammer and anvil" guys have switched to 1084, recently. (Those that aren't all wrapped up in "Damascus", that is). L-6 and 1095 are both water/brine quench also, which makes it easier.

I've never had any of Crucible's stuff, but that extra vanadium ought to be a good way to gain toughness. They're kinda high (compared to Admrial), aren't they ?

Welp, break's over - I'm back in the harness.

Later, guys
JR

Ringmaster · Post by **Ringmaster** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:07 pm

Forgot to add the pic of Mr. Cooper's Iron Mistress.... gettin' old is NOT for sissies !

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:42 pm

Ringmaster wrote: I've never had any of Crucible's stuff, but that extra vanadium ought to be a good way to gain toughness. They're kinda high (compared to Admrial), aren't they ?

Later, guys
JR

Yeah, it is high. Don't buy it at Jantz, Texas Knife, or other cutler's supply catalogs. You'll be paying a premium on that!

Here is a link to a data sheet in .pdf format on CPM S30V.

http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/dsS30Vv4b.pdf

Here is a price from Admiral for CPM S30V and a couple other stainless steels for comparison.
http://www.admiralsteel.com/pdf/bladesteel.pdf

Down at the bottom of the page, you can see similar sizes 10xx steels and how much cheaper they are. There are also the tool steels and some of the Sandvic alloys just below the stainless steels.

0-1, 1095 and other carbon steels are a bargain in comparison.

SFC ADP · Post by **SFC ADP** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:53 pm

I asked this question once, and here is the very informative reply I got:

AAPK Knife Steel

Think this is the most detailed answer I could supply from an old post!\\

All About Pocket Knives

Different Steel

Different Steel

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