storing pocket knives high humidity rusting in rolls

[orvet]

Sorry Orvet, didn't mean to repeat almost exactly what you posted ahead of me. Sounds like we're of the same opinion though.

No problem whitebuffalo.
There is no doubt in my mind that the problem is celluloid off gassing if we are understanding what tnkingfish was saying. Celluloid is a far bigger problem than many collectors realize.

The pics TJ posted shows how the gaseous vapors of acid settle down on the blade and eats right into the metal. (I believe it is sulfuric or nitric acid, depending on the type of celluloid – I have heard both types from different sources).

[rarreola]

what about those vacuum storage bags?

[whitebuffalo58]

Yes sirs, celluloid can be a real pain. I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 cell handled knives. Several years ago I finally built a custom storage/display unit for 'em. It's on legs which holds it up off the floor. I cut a rectangular opening in the bottom, towards the front and another in the back towards the top. (neither are visible) This allows air to freely circulate through the cabinet. I covered the openings with fiber filters to keep out the dust. (1" thick furnace filters work great) That was about 12-14 years ago and I haven't had any problem with the effects of off gassing since. I've always found that off gassing occurs in all celluloid during a certain period in it's life. But, the most damaging effects seem to only occur when it's kept in a confined space. This includes one that's being carried in a pocket. And how many fisherman with celluloid handled fishing knives do you suppose opened their otherwise dry tackle boxes in the spring and wondered why all their fish hooks were rusted through. Anyway, as many have stated, when it comes to celluloid...let it "breath".

[whitebuffalo58]

As far as sealed containers for other knives? Personally i've never tried it. My thinking has always been, any moisture that did find it's way in would be trapped. I think humidity will find a way in no matter what you do. Changes in temperature can cause condensation with very little moisture present. Just never seemed like a good idea to me.

[IMBand]

Great info in this thread. If I were you, I would deal with any possible cell issue as mentioned
by so many others, then I would install a goldenrod in my gun safe. All gun safes in wet climates
need one of these. Good luck with it.

IM

http://www.goldenroddehumidifiers.com/g ... ection.htm

[Paladin]

Great info in this thread. If I were you, I would deal with any possible cell issue as mentioned
by so many others, then I would install a goldenrod in my gun safe. All gun safes in wet climates
need one of these. Good luck with it.

IM

http://www.goldenroddehumidifiers.com/g ... ection.htm

IM is right on here. I have had a goldenrod in my safe for nearly 40 years and have had no problems in the safe with either guns or knives. During that time I also had central air conditioning which removes a lot of moisture from our humid air.
Regarding the celluloid handles, Knife World had the very best article I have ever read on celluloid last month.

Ray

[Owd Wullie]

I am not a chemist, but I find it interesting that the when they gas like that, it seems to affect the exposed blade the most. Does the brass liner protect it in some manner? Maybe there's something to that and it could be formulated to help protect our knives from this monster?

Everyone I have seen is just about the same. Rust on the exposed top of the blade. Didn't matter if the knife was stored on its side or upside down.

Just and observation.

Depends on the material. This older Case had NO blade damage, but the liners were taking a hard hit.




Here's what he scales looked like after sitting in the sun for a couple of weeks.


Here's what that Case looks like now. The blades have not been buffed.


I also have what's left off an older ('40-'64) CASE XX stockman that had those crap yellow Case scales on it. It got the blades and and nearly dissolved one liner on that knife. The knife is pretty much gone as it laid in a tool chest drawer for probably 20 years while it digested itself.

[tnkingfish]

i do believe it is outgassing cause most of the rust looks like the ones tjmurhpy posted im sorting them out and separating them only able to do a little at a time, i just had 4 stents put in my iliac artery and had a reaction to the plavix so im only at half speed right now

[tnkingfish]

i just found another one im not sure on, it says solingen cutlery B.svoboda germany its a 3 blade large stockman, gigged bone handles not finding much about it on internet.

[tnkingfish]

i found some more fight n roosters that outgassed they were wrapped in paper towels in knife roll the other knives in roll didnt get rusted but the celluliod handles have moisture on them i am cleaning and just goining to set them out on shelf.

[tnkingfish]

nother pic of the outgassing

[gringo]

i believe i have found my niche...as my part for the green movement, and the end of global warming,
send all those frightening cell knives to me for storage in a low humidified environment.

[jerryd6818]

Gringo, you are a man among men, head and shoulders above the common place. Any one who would sacrifice themselves for the greater good like that, is just aces in my book.

[tjmurphy]

WOW Kingfish, that is really sad. I'm sorry for your knives, they look like they were pretty good ones. If they've out-gassed that much I'd guess the handles are shot, especially the ones you said had moisture on them. Hope someone else will tell me I'm wrong, but I think the only hope for the knives is to remove the handles before the frames are destroyed. I think that's one of those reactions that once it starts, there's no stopping it.

[orvet]

That is definitely off gassing on that cracked ice Fightin’ Rooster. That is a shame!

Be sure you don’t get that moisture from those knives on anything. It is probably highly acidic. If it gets on another knife it could damage the steel or even destabilize another celluloid handle and start the off gassing process there.

Hope someone else will tell me I'm wrong, but I think the only hope for the knives is to remove the handles before the frames are destroyed. I think that's one of those reactions that once it starts, there's no stopping it.

I agree with TJ, getting the handles off is the only way to save the knives.



Here are a couple pics of a Case I repaired for a guy. The gassing had damaged the liners so badly they were cracked. I had to get another knife with bad blades and put the blades from this knife into the frame of the donor knife.

As beautiful as celluloid can be I have very few in my collection and these mostly have historical significance and those lay out in the open air.

[tnkingfish]

set some of the ones i cleaned out on a shelf they cleaned so -so with a combination of a knife eraser and 1000 , 2000 grit sandpaper, handles only cracked on a couple of them. these are the fight n roosters, the bulldogs all came perfectly clean with just the knife eraser. still havent went through the rest of them went threw a few rolls of case xx that had the yellow handle and some corelon handled knives but they hadnt off gasses any. are the yellow handle and coreloen handle knives the same as celluliod handles?

[whitebuffalo58]

Corolon and modern compositon materials are stable and not prone to off gassing. Sorry to see those cell knives and for the troubles they've caused ya. Some lessons are hard learned. I do agree with the others that atleast the cracked ice knife is a lost cause, i too would get those handles off ASAP. The others IMHO could still be worth trying to save. If they were mine, i'd clean 'em up, oil the blades, keep in the open air and keep a close eye on them for the next few weeks. With these steps it is still possible to avoid having to rehandle all of them. This is just my opinion and others advise may be just as sound. Use your own judgement and good luck.