Bulldog First Generation Sowbellies

[Hukk]

I am posting these pictures as I was told only the sowbellies on the right were true first generations. These are the Tobaccoo King Sowbellies and from top to bottom on both sides they are Ohio Tobaccoo King, Virginia Tobaccoo King, North Carolina Tobaccoo King, and last Kentucky Tobaccoo King. These were all made in a quantity of 400 and is the most common model, but I see quite a few on ebay now and bunches seem to be available every now and then. So, does anyone know the real story on these, just curious.

Sorry for the lousy pics. That time thing again.

Edit: The order may not be correct (states) rushing around again

[olderdogs1]

Hukk,
I think the pictures in this post speak for themselves. Again as I mentioned in previous posts look at the bright white on the ends of the stag and the newer look in general. I think the great majority would agree that the knives on the right were put together much earlier than the ones of the left. The texture of the stag on the ones we are calling true 1st generation is definitely different and in my opinion much more desirable. I know both sets have blades dated 1984.
Again this is just my opinion along with others but I think these knives make the case as well as any I have seen. I don't think I need to ask you which set you value the highest.
Thanks for this post and again for letting my put in my 2 cents worth.
Olderdogs1

[norsefan12]

I think olderdogs has hit the nail on the head with his comments on the stag differences. In my observations of true 1st gen. stag and the obvious differences in the colors, who is the benefactor of the diluted market for 1st gen. knives?? None other than the person that has withheld the unused blades from the 1st gen. era and is now making "knockoff" pieces with the only stag available at this time. It would have been a great "scam" if the old stag market hadn't dried up!! Too bad that many have been taken by this ruse. Just my 2 cents worth.

[El Lobo]

Wrong thread...sheeeeeesh!

Bill

[Hukk]

Thanks olderdogs1 and norsefan12, I appreciate your opinions. This is what I've been told is the stag controversy regarding the Bulldog knife. It is my opinion that this practice has driven prices down to answer an earlier question from sunburst in another thread, that and the opinions I expressed earlier. It creates a lack of trust issue IMO.

I was going to sell these knock-offs as norsefan12 calls them, but I knew what they were saying already and I personally had a hard time, so I will keep them. I see there are more of these Tobacco King Sowbelies on ebay now and ALL of them appear to be these same remakes. Remember only 400 of each were produced in 1984 when Charlie Dorton owned the Bulldog trademark. I've seen far to many being sold on ebay, usually the same sellers and always the same stag.

I have to admit I did not know about this until it was pointed out to me about a year ago. I have other knives that are "knockoff", but I will keep them and likely I will use them in a few projects, take them out of the pool so to speak.

I would be happy to buy a 2000 or 2006 model of these knives, I do like the original set.

[olderdogs1]

Hukk,
I think most of us are still admiring those sowbellies on the right hand side. Those are some real beauties. I think that those will always be collectable to anyone who knows and appreciates a good knife. Also anyone who appreciates great stag. Thanks for a great post.
Olderdogs1

[sunburst]

Is it just my eyes or do I see a difference in the shields as well. The shields on the right seem to be more teardrop in appearance and a bit longer than the left hand side.??

Sunburst

[Roger - 50/2050]

Hey Hukk,

Excellent Gum shoe work along with knife photos my knifer friend!



"Texas collector", Roger - 50/2050

[Hukk]

Thanks Roger, but I have learned a lot from others and after taking a look at what I was told I had to admit I had made a bad investment although I did not pay nearly the $115.00 that one of these Ohio's got on ebay. To have the complete sets - side by side makes it real easy to confirm what I was told, now I do know, and I hope all of you do also.

The difference in stag first hand, close up is amazing! The real ones are just really great stag to those who love stag.

[tank]

Thanks alot for the side by side Hukk. A picture is worth a 1000 date stamps
This was really helpful.

[Hukk]

Is it just my eyes or do I see a difference in the shields as well. The shields on the right seem to be more teardrop in appearance and a bit longer than the left hand side.??

Sunburst

You know you are absolutely correct. The Tobbacoo leaf sheilds do seem to be more pointy on the set on the right. I should bring a micrometer from the shop and check some things.

[norsefan12]

Great observation Sunburst, I got a chance to look at two side by side in person today and there is definitely a difference in the shields. This has been a great post and a learning experience for all.

[Hukk]

Compare this shield on the "knockoff" pieces with the shield of the Bulldog canoes. Maybe there is something there. I got this in an email from od.

[Hukk]

Well, I compared the "knock-offs" as norsefan12 called them to some other knives I had which also had a Tobacco leaf/stamp. The "knockoff's are not like the Bulldog canoe, however the stamping may have just been done with more pressure IMO as it should have been a 1 step process to stamp and punch the shield. That technology was in use in the 80's and much before. See the pictures and judge for yourself.
The Bulldog Canoe does not match up well.
The Jumbo Congress is questionable.
The celluloid Tobacco Kings are quite similar, the difference being that the so called "knock off" has a much lighter stamping on the shield.

Please look closely at the pulls, you will see that the do called "knock offs" have very different pulls. The first generations have the serrations going right down into the etch. The knives in question do not have this and the number of serrations is about 15 on the main blade of the first generation vs, about 11 on the so called "knock-offs". I will make another post to show the front and back of each knife.

[jonet143]

who is responsible for these " knockoffs".

[sunburst]

Yeah what Johnnie said..???

[singin46]

The sheilds are most certainly different in every way.

Nice pics Hukk

Singin

[Hukk]

The sheilds are most certainly different in every way.

Nice pics Hukk

Singin

The shields are different, the pulls are very different even going down into the etching on the master blade on a couple. Please note, that also 2 of the "true First Generations" have 4 pins instead of 3. Whereas the others on the left, they all have 3 pins. Also, even though I do not show it, all of the tang stamps are much deeper on the "true First Generations" than the others, they are quite shallow. I can take pitures and post them if anyone wants to see them.

Also, please note that if you have Pocket knife Traders Guide, vol 7, that on page 46 these same Tobacco Kings are pictured and the have the blunted shield, not the pointy ones that have such great stag.

[norsefan12]

I just got out my old copyrighted 1997, Vol. 3 and on page 41 it has a colored pictured Virginia Tobacco King with the nice "OLD" stag and the pointed tobacco leaf.

[justold52]

Hukk; ("You have the complete set") . How many knife in that set?
What makes a SET of knives and why diferant numbers to a set ?

[Hukk]

Hukk; ("You have the complete set") . How many knife in that set?
What makes a SET of knives and why diferant numbers to a set ?

These 4 knives represent just a part of the set. There are a few more, but these 4 stags are the most common. I'm being told that they are becomming more common . I don't really know what to think