Fitting into bolsters,,,

[ringergary]

Hi all, A question,, When fitting handle to bolstered knife, how tight a fit do you cut the handle material.
Do you make it a firm push in fit or have a very slight allowance.
I was wondering if it was too firm it might crack when peened.
I've never rehandled a bolstered knife before.
Any help gladly received.


cheers Gary.

[knives-are-quiet]

Hi all, A question,, When fitting handle to bolstered knife, how tight a fit do you cut the handle material.
Do you make it a firm push in fit or have a very slight allowance.
I was wondering if it was too firm it might crack when peened.
I've never rehandled a bolstered knife before.
Any help gladly received.


cheers Gary.

Gary,
You want to make the transition between bolster and handle material as tight as possible.
Like a hairline. This is quite hard to do when re-doing an old knife and using the old handle material. All the differences from ware and corrosion will make it almost impossible. Sanding the edge of the bolster as flat as possible when using new material will help get that hairline. Just make them as close as possible and even on both sides. Making a new knife like from a kit, makes it much easier to get those gaps tight.
You can use some sort of filler to fill in the slight gaps when the knife is complete.
This will help stop moisture from getting behind those handles.
Cracking of the material is usually do to the age of the material.
If you are using new material then it is human error. You are fitting the pins to tight. Leaving the pins too long before pinning. Or just hitting them too hard.
Lots of small light taps instead of a couple of hard wacks will save you a lot of trouble.
Just take your time and be gentle.

I have been working on a knife I purchased at a yard sale for 75 cents.
A James A Scholes Warrencliff jack knife made in Sheffield mid to late 1800's.
Although the handles are horn which is much tougher than bone the material is over 100 years old. I was very gentle when removing the handles so the knife could be cleaned especially the liners behind the handles. Also the knife needs new pins. The old steel ones are rusted and weak. I was also very gentle when peening them back on the liners after cleaning them.
Here are a couple of pic's of the procedure.

:TAKEN APART:

:WORKING DOWN PINS TO FIT:

:EPOXY TO HELP SEAL WATER TIGHT:

:HAMMERING:



:KNIFE PUT BACK TOGETHER:


"still needs finish work"


J W

[ringergary]

JW,,, Thanks, that is exactly what I needed.
Very well explained with pic's.
I have been hitting the pins too hard, just gotta restrain myself.
Shortly I'll do a bolstered knife and wasn't sure on fittment of the handle fit, but am now a lot
more confidant with your tutorial.


cheers Gary.

[paulsvintage]

JW, thanks for taking the time and helping , a bunch of real nice people here helping out here . one question i have been glueing first . than drilling the pin holes . a'm i doing it wrong. i'm only on my third rehandle and have a lot to learn

[knifemaker3]

JW, thanks for taking the time and helping , a bunch of real nice people here helping out here . one question i have been glueing first . than drilling the pin holes . a'm i doing it wrong. i'm only on my third rehandle and have a lot to learn

You're doing it right. It's much easier to glue 1st and then drill.....at least for me.

[paulsvintage]

JW, thanks for taking the time and helping , a bunch of real nice people here helping out here . one question i have been glueing first . than drilling the pin holes . a'm i doing it wrong. i'm only on my third rehandle and have a lot to learn

You're doing it right. It's much easier to glue 1st and then drill.....at least for me.

Craig, thanks for your input.every little bit helps

[knives-are-quiet]

JW, thanks for taking the time and helping , a bunch of real nice people here helping out here . one question i have been glueing first . than drilling the pin holes . a'm i doing it wrong. i'm only on my third rehandle and have a lot to learn

To tell you the truth, I've never even thought about gluing first then drilling.
See, even with a good amount of experience you still are always learning.
It would seem to be a good way with installing new handles to get the holes in the liners to match the new handle material. But I think it would be more time consuming. You have to glue clamp and wait for the glue to totally dry before drilling. But if you're in no hurry, it sounds like a good idea. I usually clamp the handles to the liners and drill press, drill the holes then glue with fast drying epoxy, wait 15 minutes, then start pinning. the glue will totally cure in 24 hours.
I guess either which way would work.
If you feel more comfortable gluing first then your doing it right.
Hey, thanks for your help and excellent tip.
I'll have to try the gluing first sometime, maybe it is easier.

J W

[knives-are-quiet]

JW,,, Thanks, that is exactly what I needed.
Very well explained with pic's.
I have been hitting the pins too hard, just gotta restrain myself.
Shortly I'll do a bolstered knife and wasn't sure on fittment of the handle fit, but am now a lot
more confidant with your tutorial.


cheers Gary.

You're welcome Gary,
I posted those pictures of that Sheffield Jack pretty quickly as it was getting late.
There are some in between procedures that were not mentioned.
I will post the full procedure from breaking down of the knife to final hand finishing a little later on. I will be doing the finish work and blade sharpening tonight.
Take it easy~

JW

[orvet]

JW, thanks for taking the time and helping , a bunch of real nice people here helping out here . one question i have been glueing first . than drilling the pin holes . a'm i doing it wrong. i'm only on my third rehandle and have a lot to learn

You're doing it right. It's much easier to glue 1st and then drill.....at least for me.

I agree Craig.
That is the way I do it, glue first, then drill.

[knives-are-quiet]

JW,,, Thanks, that is exactly what I needed.
Very well explained with pic's.
I have been hitting the pins too hard, just gotta restrain myself.
Shortly I'll do a bolstered knife and wasn't sure on fittment of the handle fit, but am now a lot
more confidant with your tutorial.


cheers Gary.

You're welcome Gary,
I posted those pictures of that Sheffield Jack pretty quickly as it was getting late.
There are some in between procedures that were not mentioned.
I will post the full procedure from breaking down of the knife to final hand finishing a little later on. I will be doing the finish work and blade sharpening tonight.
Take it easy~

JW

This is the procedures need to repair and cleanup this old Sheffield sway back jack.
Everything on the knife was salvagable, even the horn handles.
The only new materials used were new stainless steel pins.

:BEFORE PICTURES:




:1st step - Disassemble:
Use a spreader tool to spread apart liner/scales enough to get a cutting tool (putty knife or old knife) in between the spring and liner at the center pin. A couple of stiff whacks with a hammer on the cutting tool will cut the pin. Continue to do the same with the pivot and end pins. The knife will now come apart easily.
Tap or pull the cut pins that are left in the liners. If stubborn the pins may have to be drilled out. Use a smaller diameter drill bit than the pin and drill all the way through using a drill press.


:2nd step - Cleaning:
Clean all metal parts using a rust removing solvent and steel wool.
If there is a lot of pitting then sanding will be necessary.
Use a rust stabilizer like “naval jelly” if the rust and pitting are so bad and you can’t sand it all out without destroying the metal part effected.

:This liner was worst than the other and both needed rust stabilized:
"CAN ANYONE TELL ME ABOUT THE SLASH MARKS ON THIS LINER?"
I have seen these marks on most of the old liners I have worked on.



:3rd step - reattaching handles to liners:
Sand the side of the liner where the handle material will attach to, for better adhesion of the epoxy.
Place a thin layer of fast drying epoxy on the liners and attach the handles.
Use tooth picks to put through the pin holes to keep the holes in the liners and handles aligned.
Use spring type clamps and let the glue dry for 15 minutes and remove the tooth picks.

Pin and peen the liner pins .


You may have to turn down the pin stock to fit using a belt sander.
You want the pins to fit tight but easily slide in and out of the hole.
Cut the pins leaving as much sticking out as the diameter of the hole it will be placed into .
“Gentle” tap, alternating from inner liner side to outer handle side slowly mushrooming the top of the pins till the liner and handle is tight.
Use your belt sander to sand down the rounded head of the pin on the inner side of the liners so the blade will not hit when it is retracted into the liners when assembly is complete.

4th step - knife assembly and peening:
I use a piece of wood as a jigg.
Lay the “mark side” liner/handle on the wood handle material down.
Drill holes into the wood through the liner holes and place the pins ( approximately 1 inch longer than you will need) through the holes into the wooden board.
Place the blade on the pivot pin at the bolster in the open position.
Place the spring in position over the center and end pins and push down into position.
Use needle nose pliers at the edge of the liner and inner part of the spring close to the bolster and squeeze to bend the spring straight into the open knife position .
Snap the spring into the end of the blade at the run up and back square while holding pressure with the pliers.
Keeping pressure on the spring so it does not come off the blade you can check the knifes operation for good snap and make any adjustment necessary.
When the knife operates correctly place the “pile side” liner/handle over all pins and push down.
The knife is now together and can be removed from the board jigg pins and all.
Keeping the knife squeezed together and tap the pins so that the excess is sticking out of the sides of the knife and are fairly even.





Cut the excess pins leaving as much sticking out as the diameter of the hole it will be placed into .
Peen the center pin first making sure you use a slacking tool or piece of tin foil folded to a .010 to .015 thickness placed between the side of the spring and inner part of the liner so you don’t peen to tight.
Tap till the slacking tool shows any resistance when trying to be removed.
Repeat this procedure on the pivot pin.
After removing the slacking tool give the pivot pin light taps till all play “horizontal wobble” is gone on the blade. “THIS PROCIDURE IS CRITICLE TO THE OPERATION OF THE KNIFE“
Not enough tapping and the blade will still wobble. Too much tapping and the blade will not close properly and will be to tight. It has to be done just right.
The end pin can be peened without the spacer or slacking tool.


5th step - finishing and detail:
Grind the heads of the pivot pin on the bolster using your belt sander till you can’t see the pin at all.
If your using stainless pins with nickel silver bolsters you will see the pins “stainless is a little darker in color but will last much longer. You can also leave them rounded, it is a personal preference.

Depending on handle material and personal preference you can sand the center and end pins flush or leave them rounded. You can also buff the hammer marks out of the rounded pin heads or leave them as is, leaving the hammer marks.
Hand sand all scratches out of the metal parts and finish handles as desired.
If a high polish finish is desired, polish the metal parts before assembly with a buffing wheel and touch up after assembly is complete.
If the blade of the knife is extremely worn and you don’t replace it with a new one.
Shape the blade as desired using hand files or your belt sander.
When using the belt sander do not let the metal of the blade get hotter than you can touch with your bare hands. Too hot and you will lose the temper of the metal. Sand a little then let cool and repeat till you are done shaping.
Treat the handle material if desired at this stage.
Use a bastard file to put a defined edge on the blade at a 20 to 25 % angle.
If you will be putting a patina on the blade submerge blade in white vinegar for 10 minutes to an hour or repeatedly wipe down metal parts with a vinegar soaked rag.
You can now sharpen the blade with a stone or sharpening system.
Keep a light coat of oil on all metal parts and oil the pivot and center pin regularly.
You are now ready to start cutting.

:AFTER PICTURES:




The knife is now very safe to use and actually turned out to be a nice little knife"
I like it a lot.

"By all means this knife will never be a show piece and still shows a few age marks"
I aways try to keep that antique look with these old knives.
It also was never perfect like a new age knife when brand new back in the day. The knife was made more than a 100 years ago not to look pretty but as a durable usefull tool and I intend to continue using it that way.
"Look at the back of the horn handles. These are the original file marks from being hand made"

The knife had gaps between the liners and handle material when originaly made. I could fix this but that would take away the knife's old world charicter. It is better to leave things the way they were with these very old knives.
The blade was a warrencliff originally and had a lot more edge to it but over sharpening and a lot of use wore it into a kind of hawk bill blade. I reshaped the blade back to a slightly smaller warrencliff.


J W

[ringergary]

JW,, Thanks, that is truly a great tutorial. You have given me a greater insight into some things I haven't been putting
enough effort into. I didn't think about putting a slackener between the centre pin just used to do it on the blades.
I also had a lot of trouble getting the blades and springs together, but you have just shown me how.
Will see how my next one goes, no doubt it's gotta be a lot better thanks to your schooling.

You make it seem so easy, I''ll have to put more concentration into doing it slower and keep refering to your articile
when in doubt.


cheers Gary.

[knives-are-quiet]

JW,, Thanks, that is truly a great tutorial. You have given me a greater insight into some things I haven't been putting
enough effort into. I didn't think about putting a slackener between the centre pin just used to do it on the blades.
I also had a lot of trouble getting the blades and springs together, but you have just shown me how.
Will see how my next one goes, no doubt it's gotta be a lot better thanks to your schooling.

You make it seem so easy, I''ll have to put more concentration into doing it slower and keep refering to your articile
when in doubt.



cheers Gary.

No problem Gary, and your welcome.
Yea, you need to use a slacking tool where ever there will be movement when the knife is opened and closed. Pivot and center pin areas.
If you do make one of these areas too tight you can loosen it back up with your spreader tool and re-tap the pins.

Anything looks easy in writing but when you actually go to do it you will find it's not.
I am just posting the way I like to redo a spring knife.
And I'm sure there are others who would go about doing it differently.
After doing a few knives you will probably find your own different way of going about it that will be more comfortable to you.
Learn the basics from this site and add a little of your own flair and it will become second nature to you.

J W

[ea42]

JW, great tutorial

The only step I can see that may be a waste of your time is slackening the center pin. The only time you really need to pay attention to that pin is in a lockback, since the spring then becomes the pivoting lockbar which you definitely don't want bound up. On a standard slippy that pin generally serves as an anchor, most all of the movement occurs closer to the bolster. You stand a much better chance of closing up gaps if that area is as tight as possible. Hammer away!

Eric

[knives-are-quiet]

JW, great tutorial

The only step I can see that may be a waste of your time is slackening the center pin. The only time you really need to pay attention to that pin is in a lockback, since the spring then becomes the pivoting lockbar which you definitely don't want bound up. On a standard slippy that pin generally serves as an anchor, most all of the movement occurs closer to the bolster. You stand a much better chance of closing up gaps if that area is as tight as possible. Hammer away!

Eric

Do not make the center pin too tight on any slipjoint.
You may not think there is any movement at this point but there is.
It is very slight and is very critical to the action of the knife opening and closing.
Also that center pin being free lets the spring slide up and down smoothly within the liners.
Make the center pin too tight and you will have a stiff operating knife.
When I first started out assembling knives 27 years ago I made this mistake a number of times.
Use your slacking tool or shim at the center pin just like you would at the pivot.Remove the slacking tool and tap till you see no light through the liner and spring.
If you make it too tight, loosen it with your spreader tool and re-tap.



J W

[Elvis]

Some time ago I actually heard the center pin referred to as the "Pivot Pin" and it made sense----not to be confused with the hinge pin for the plade to hinge or pivot on. That spot does need the ability to move some for the whole backspring to get involved and help bear part of the load and prevent breaking them.

[knives-are-quiet]

Some time ago I actually heard the center pin referred to as the "Pivot Pin" and it made sense----not to be confused with the hinge pin for the plade to hinge or pivot on. That spot does need the ability to move some for the whole backspring to get involved and help bear part of the load and prevent breaking them.

I have a couple of books on spring knife repair.
One refers the center pin as the "pivot" and the other book the "center" pin.
The first book is from the 50's and calls it the pivot.
The second book from the 80's and refer's it as the center pin.
Both books refer the pin at the bolster and blade as the hinge pin.
I think "center pin" is easier to understand as it doesn't truly pivot as the hinge pin does.
The center pin is more a fulcrum point for movement of the spring.
Although not noticeable, the spring does slightly move at this point.

J W

[Toejammer]

JW, this rocks ! Thanks for posting this, you pretty much answered all my queries in one shot !

I might have to print this out.......

[trutemper]

Thanks for the tutorial. It not only gives a lot of insight to "tricks of the trade" but also to the general workings of folders. I`m sure I`ll be referring back to this page many times when I finally get a chance to retire and do the things Ive been dreaming about.