Rough Rider Knives

A place to discuss & share pictures of anything that relates to knives.
zeke
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Post by zeke »

by the way i seriously appreciate all the help and advice you guys have given me so far. theres not that many people in the world that would care one way or the other if i just threw my money away on any knife or saved my money for a good knife. you all seem really genuinely nice. some forums ive been to they just look at you as a novice idiot,but not here. i was originally considering buying 3 rough riders for my next months purchase, but since ive read all this im thinking of just spending it on a good 30 dollar case knife. i can really only afford to spend 20-30 dollars a month on a hobby so id like to spend it wisely. again thanks.
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jonet143
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Post by jonet143 »

zeke, i've seen many good knives in your price range sell on ebay in the last week, case included. i think you'll be more proud and better investment wise with the higher quality knives in the long run. this is a hobby, or adiction you could enjoy the rest of your life. the knives you "invest" in now will be worth more in the future. my advice is don't get in a hurry. study, ask questions and go look at knife stores, pawn shops, flea markets and get a feel for them. good luck
johnnie f 1949

on the cutting edge is sometimes not the place to be.
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longbeachbum
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Re: Collecting or just owning?

Post by longbeachbum »

BrokenCamillus wrote:Worry not my friends, the Chinese knife will only get better because of your demands, but maybe American makers will have stepped up to make a low price line that isn't as exclusive by then.
More likely there just won't be any American makers. In less than three years we've seen Schrade, Camillus, and United Cutlery succumb to the soft cutlery market created by the Chinese imports. With Schrade and Camillus it's true that they had management and labor problems to compound their difficulties and that's why they were the first to go. Rest assured that Case and Queen are feeling the squeeze and it will only get worse. I say, enjoy having these companies around actually manufacturing quality cutlery in the USA now, because in all likelihood we won't have that anymore at some point in the not too distant future.
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Post by jfarmer »

I'm afraid that you are probably right.

James
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orvet
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Post by orvet »

jonet143 wrote:thanks for your service to the u.s. orvet and i agree.
Thanks Johnnie, you are welcome. ::tu::


Zeke,
IMHO, a person can amass a bunch of cheap knives or a few nice knives, to me a few nice knives are preferable. Nice does not necessarily mean expensive.

If you are on a budget you can buy used knives. While they aren't perfect, you can get a nice carbon steel old knife that will hold a good edge and is inexpensive enough you can carry it everyday and not worry about ruining or loosing an expensive knife. Plus you can show it off at work or where ever you go. :mrgreen:

Collecting is very personal and each person does it a bit differently. I enjoy getting an old knife and fixing it up using it in my daily chores. Most of the knives in my collection are used. I can put a knife in my pocket that was made in the 1930s and use it all day and marvel at the fact the knife is still a good tool 70+ years later.

An old knife in my pocket is like carrying a piece of history with me. It is something I enjoy.

Find your niche in knife collecting and go for it! ::tu::

Enjoy collecting,
Dale
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SFC ADP
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Post by SFC ADP »

Just some idea's for the begining knife collector:

1) Buy literature. My 1st knife book I still own to this day, it was the 1984 Official Price Guide. I now also have the 13th & 14th Editions. There are many knife books out there, and most of the ones I have now I am pleased with. I would recommend maybe going to knifeworld.com as they sell alot of books, and you can subscribe to their newspaper. See a book there you like, maybe check amazon.com to see if you can pick it up cheaper.

2) I started collecting knives at a very young age. Being young, alot of friends of the family gave me knives to support my hobby. Looking back they were immpressed someone my age was responsible enough to have a knife collection and maintain it. Don't be scared to show your a knife collector, some people are pretty generous out there to support your hobby.

3) Pawn Shops, Flea Markets, Swap Meets, Gun Shows are all great places to find knives. And usually you can haggle on the price! One thing I did do when I was a kid, I ended up with a lot of "junk" knives, of course I thought were cool at the time. Pakistan, Chinese, Japan... etc etc. Lesson learned, keep your eye open for the good stuff. E-Bay is another source to find some nice knives inexpensively.

4) Some nice knives that can be considered collectible that are in-expensive in my experience:
1. Schrade (USA, avoid the Chinese stuff)
2. Buck
3. Camillus
4. Opinel (French Made, have some inexpensive collector sets, regular knife can be picked up for $7-$20)
5. This is just a quick lists of cheaper knives I can think of off the top of my head. There are many more.

5) Go to knife company web sites and put in for their catalogs! I don't know how many catalogs I get at the House, but you can find some great deals on Case, Bulldogs etc ect. Try shepherhillscutlery.com you can order right on line.

6) Join a knife club/organization. I belong to NKCA, and am about to join Case Collectors Club. If you save up to buy a club knife, it will appreciate in Value. I own a few NKCA club knives, and have not seen one depreciate yet! Also the news letters they send out can be quite educational. I know Dues for NKCA is ony like $28 a year for new members, and cheaper for Junior members. I think by joining NKCA they still give you a free book, "Counterfeiting Antique Cutlery". nkcaknife.org

7) Be a member of allaboutpocketknives.com ::tu:: There are many people here willing to help you out, and give advice. I would say the biggest part of this hobby is education. Learn about the knives, the companies, the counterfeits, the price range. KNowledge is power, and this will protect you and your collection!

Just a few tips for some of our beginer collectors. Hope it helps, as this is some things I have learned during the past few decades of this hobby!
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justold52
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Post by justold52 »

SFC ADP : Very well wrighten. All what you said is true. ::tu::

I just have to comment on this line. :wink:

("Looking back they were immpressed someone my age was responsible enough to have a knife collection and maintain it")

I get the felling if you had messed up real bad. Dad might have taken it away?

I know now YOU have a real good mom and DAD. and you keppted up your school grades too. ::doh:: ::nod:: ::nod::

Pass on Your high standards and values too you grand childern too.
A sign In a Chinese Pet Store: 'Buy one dog, get one flea.'
jabberwocky
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Post by jabberwocky »

'Evening gentlemen;

Well...I'm gonna add my two cents here, and probably be flamed by quite
a few of you for my views. I've been reading through the forum for a few days now, and have noticed quite a few questions/requests for advice
from a new member or two. Additionally, unless I'm totally mistaken, I
think that a number of us have already started threads similar to this one,
in different guises...but the underlying topic was identical...what do we, as
serious (and this is an important distinction to be made here)...what do we
as serious knife fans/collectors/users think of the impact that overseas &
especially asian knives are having on our hobby? The impact seems to have a twofold potential...1) quality or lack thereof, and 2) collectibility or
lack thereof. And either we're serious or we're not. If we are, as avid
collectors and fans of this hobby, we should have one opinion, and be
proud of it...if we're not serious, then we can waffle (which I seem to see
quite a bit of from some members).
What I'm saying is this...I see a lot of misquided "fence straddling", in the
name of tolerance...meaning, ("collect what you like...as long as you have fun"). Well, when a new collector finds a home on this site, and he's told that he should collect whatever he likes, then reads the threads from the more experienced and knowledgeable members expressing their (valid) views on the advantages of staying with quality products,
this creates confusion in the mind of the novice. I've sat back and read quite a bit more than I've contributed over the past week or so, and I must admit that I have infinitely more respect for the few members who've come out and said, in effect, "junk is junk...you get what you pay for". They're correct in their observations, and I think we all know it. I started a thread quite a while back re: Frost knives, and in particular the Steel Warriors, the Frost Family, etc., etc.,...with the underlying, implied question being as simple as, "How can I possibly buy a set of Steel Warriors costing $5.00 per knife, and in any SANE way expect them to be
as well made, contain identical materials, and have the potential for future collectibility as a Case, a Canal Street, an S&M, etc., etc....there was not ONE viable answer given...and with good reason. They're not
made as well, their materials are inferior, and they'll probably not see a
collectibility potential within our great grandchildrens' lifetime, much less ours!
So, with all the concern I'm reading and seeing about the inevitable demise of the well-made, handcrafted, quality of the American made pocket knife, in light of the impending Asian threat...why in the HELL are we even acknowledging the viability of the Asian trash flooding our market? As I see it...two reasons...1)Cost and 2)Availability. Sure a Canal Street or Queen costs a great deal more than a Frost or a Rough
Rider. And sure, you can't walk into your Home Depot or local hardware
store and buy an S&M or Case anymore. But, as I've heard a number of
you guys (whose opinions I respect) state..."I'd rather have one or two
quality knives than ten pieces of junk."
So, I'm sad to say, (and I'll probably be flamed for saying so, but)...if we
want to maintain any semblance of standards, material quality, future value, etc., etc., ...we're going to have to bite the bullet and pay for it!
There's no quick, easy alternative. Issues of supply and demand, bad
management, bad investments by management, lack of foresight by bad
management, aside...if we want to maintain a viable, American base in this knife market...and keep our hobby alive on a quality level, we're
going to have to (oh, God, I don't believe I'm using this expression), stay
the course...keep buying and RECOMMENDING quality products to all newcomers to this hobby that ask for our advice! Ideally, quality
American products, (although many quality European examples also
exist.)
Stop the misquided, "politically correct","well, if you like Asian knives, then collect them...maybe in 2040, that $5.00 Steel Warrior will be worth
$10.00", advice. Kudos to those of you who've advised newcomers to save up a bit, and buy a Case, or Buck, or Camillus, or USA Schrade...
that's the advice the newcomers need...they're seeing enough bad advice
on late night knife shows on cable TV. Just my long-winded opinion...I hope it doesn't get me "banned" from the forum for life.
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jonet143
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Post by jonet143 »

that works for me jabberwocky.
johnnie f 1949

on the cutting edge is sometimes not the place to be.
please support our troops - past and present
if not a member...join the NKCA! they're on our side.
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justold52
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Post by justold52 »

I will vote on you staying in AAPK. ::tu:: ::tu::

Nice to see a man stand up when he is RIGHT. ::tu::

I did buy one Delta Ranger camo color 4 " blade folding knife by Frost.

I was just thinking of how to get ride of it and came up with giving it to my mail man. He places many of my boxes in my house. (I leave the door open for him.) but now that its Holiday time again so I lock it and I have to go pick them up the next day. YUPPERS thats what I will do a post master said not to give more than a $5.00 gift. ::tu::

Yes see I too am getting ride of my JUNK ::barf::
A sign In a Chinese Pet Store: 'Buy one dog, get one flea.'
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jonet143
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Post by jonet143 »

good lord ken :wink: you're gonna give a weapon to a postal worker? :lol:
johnnie f 1949

on the cutting edge is sometimes not the place to be.
please support our troops - past and present
if not a member...join the NKCA! they're on our side.
Hukk
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Post by Hukk »

jonet143 wrote:that works for me jabberwocky.
I agree whole heartedly. American businessmen have gotten us into an awful mess in the name of profit (large profit). When you buy Chinese, did you know that in an estimated 20 years, China is expected to pass the United States as the world's leading economic power! It might only be $5.00 at a time, but why would you want to help them do that?
That's right, China is expected to be #1 in 20 years, at a time when their population is expected to pass 2 BILLION. I think that is rather scary, a communist country will be the world's leader, we will be number 2 and we GAVE all this to them as our US companies searched for new markets and profits. I wonder what life will be like as #2, think about it!
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justold52
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Post by justold52 »

jonet143 wrote:good lord ken :wink: you're gonna give a weapon to a postal worker? :lol:
TRUST ME this knife is a poor idea of a weapon. :P :P

I think if he went POSTAL with it. he would only hurt himslef.

It does not even make a good letter opener. ::td:: ::td::

Item number: 290045947700 E BAY
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A sign In a Chinese Pet Store: 'Buy one dog, get one flea.'
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MITCH RAPP
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Post by MITCH RAPP »

8) I must agree with the don't but Chinese camp. I always stay away from any tang stamped "CHINA". However I must point out the problem is not only in the knife industry. I saw a piece on the tv show 60 Minutes about Wal Mart awhile back and one of the stories main points was that 80 t0 85% of Wal Marts entire store stock is manufactured in China. I guess the cat is really out of the bag now!
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orvet
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Post by orvet »

I confess I do buy things from Wal-mart, mostly dog food, cat food, paper towels and toilet paper. These are about the only things they carry that are still made in the USA. The big factor in shopping there is they are closer to our house & I go there when I need to grab some dog food right quick.

Some time back my wife & I decided to limit our purchases of things at Wal-mart because most of their products are of inferior quality & made in China, and because of the way the treat their employees. In our area they tend to pay minimum wage & work people part time so they don't have to pay benefits. Of course, their employees resent this and it shows in their attitudes.

If there is one place on earth totally devoid of customer service, it is our local Wal-mart store.

(No offence is intended to anyone, just stating what I have observed)

Dale
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justold52
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Post by justold52 »

orvet ; Now you got me confussed too

You only buy dog food and toilet paper there and yet you go to the totally devoid of customer service ?

Do you return the paper? :lol: :lol: :wink:
A sign In a Chinese Pet Store: 'Buy one dog, get one flea.'
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Post by stockman »

Hello I have said collect what you like. I just never thought that a knife collector from the USA would want the China, Pakistan, ect. I only have two knives that are not made in the USA, they are made in Germany it was a hard decision for me to even buy them. We are forced to buy foreign by our economy, with all of the industry going overseas. I will quit collecting if I can't buy American. I prefer older American.

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orvet
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Post by orvet »

justold52 wrote:orvet ; Now you got me confussed too

You only buy dog food and toilet paper there and yet you go to the totally devoid of customer service ?

Do you return the paper? :lol: :lol: :wink:

I figure I don't need customer service to buy dog food & TP.

Yes I would Return the TP if they had any customer service. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: ::smirk::
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4ever3
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Post by 4ever3 »

jabberwocky,

I too have advised new collectors to "Buy what they like" not out of pollitical correctness but because I dont want to steer them to a pattern, but, the Country in which the knife is made never entered my mind and that is an oversight on my part. I have never mentioned it because I personally dont, wont, and will NEVER own a knife that is made anywhere but the USA, or maybe Germany(although that is doubtful.) Like I stated it is an oversight on my part because I assume that everyone that is here is of the same mind set of "buy no junk!" However, now that this has been pointed out, I will in the future tell new collectors "As long as it's made here." Now on to the "banned" part, I wont ban you if you wont ban me ::tu::
jabberwocky
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Post by jabberwocky »

It certainly is an interesting, but confusing topic. While it was never my intention to belittle others' advice or opinions on which knives to buy or collect, nonetheless, I guess I do have strong opinions on how we can
begin to solve an increasing threat of overseas products infiltrating our
hobby. I have, over the past few days, gone over some of my own older
postings, and find that on at least one occasion, I've recommended and/or
endorsed a made-in-Japan Kershaw DWO.
When I was looking for a quality folding hunter a few years back, I bought
a Kershaw Blackhorse II (made in Oregon, USA). Then, a while later, I
wanted a small, handy pocket lockback, and I bought the DWO, only to later realize that this particular model was made in Japan. I think a lot of
these Chinese imports seem to be touting "German 440 Steel" in their
marketing...(to my knowledge, Frost, for one). As a few of the more knowledgeable members pointed out...there's 3 or 4 kinds of 440 SS!
The more of your posts I've read over the past months, the more I've
come to realize that there's an increasing number of American companies
either folding, or taking their manufacturing overseas...and that to me is
sad...whether the cause is short-sighted management, cost & pricing
considerations, market decline, etc.. So, I guess what I'm saying is that
this concern is what prompted my remarks of a few days ago. When I
read the remarks of the more knowledgeable/long-time/experienced members on this site...I know I'm not alone in this concern. I really hope that in several years, the Canal Streets et al. will have flourished enough
to offer products at price points to compete with the old USA Schrades, and thus bring in newer, younger members to this hobby...I hope I'm not
just being naive in these wishes...but I know that for now, what we can do
is take every opportunity to support USA knifmakers, and hope for an industry turnaround.[/b]
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johnnierotten
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Post by johnnierotten »

I wouldn't let someones social status or political views sway my decisiion on what kind of knife to buy.We as a people buy and collect what we can afford.If you can spend $30 a month on a knife or knives I would suggest ebay.I have bought numerous knives for that amount or less.Alot of them were Bulldogs.which is one of my favorite brand pocket knives.Its hard to find a better quality knife for the price.Plus its made in Germany,need I say more?
::tu:: ::tu::
I own several Chineese made knives,I don't consider them part of my collection, but I do use them.If I break or lose one it doesn't dent the wallet as bad..
So far so good ...So What!!
johnnierotten

So far,So good...So What!!
zeke
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Post by zeke »

from the advice ive read. and i really appreciate it im goin to start me a case collection. i mean i can easily afford a case knife once a month or everyother month on the more expensive ones. i would much rather have something thats going to be an treasured american keepsake 50 years down the road and i also being a guitar player know how much better american made is than asian. next mont in fact im getting my first case knife ive had my eye on in ocean blue for 41 dollars. i totally believe in supporting american companies, but im not always goint to resist a asian made knife either. my father for instance knows about my new hobby. hes no knife expert he just wanted to get me a nice looking knife set to help start my collection. so he bought me a 3 piece remington set in a wooden display, from walmart and even though it was made in asia im going to have it the rest of my life because my father gave it to me. but as far as buying myself it will most likely be american or german made from now on.
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johnnierotten
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Post by johnnierotten »

Wise move bro!!! ::tu:: ::tu:: ::tu::
johnnierotten

So far,So good...So What!!
jabberwocky
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Post by jabberwocky »

johnierotten...I agree with your views; no one should dictate your choices,
but I also have a feeling you've got an appreciation for quality, and the knowledge of what comprises it. And what a strictly utilitarian knife is.

zeke...on an unrelated topic, if I may,...as a fellow guitar player...what kind of gear do you currently have? I'm a Tele player...Fender Highway
1...vintage blonde, rosewood fretboard (new model); Lite Ash Tele, maple
neck; and a Carvin TL60 (just a few months old); Fender blonde blues junior tube amp; Fender blonde pro junior tube amp. I play strictly for my own enjoyment on an amateur level. Still trying to find my tone. How about you?
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4ever3
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Post by 4ever3 »

Glad to hear that zeke ::nod::
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