Celluloid Handles

[jerryd6818]

I have at least three knives over ten years old with celluloid handles that are curling up slightly at the ends (see pics). Any suggestions? These are three of my favorites and I would hate to see them go to celluloid hell.

They are in order:
Case Long Tailed C, Waterfall, serialized
Case Long Tailed C, Candy Stripe, serialized
Parker Kinfolks, Standard Knife Co., Christmas Tree scales.

[stockman]

I have at least three knives over ten years old with celluloid handles that are curling up slightly at the ends (see pics). Any suggestions? These are three of my favorites and I would hate to see them go to celluloid hell.

They are in order:
Case Long Tailed C, Waterfall, serialized
Case Long Tailed C, Candy Stripe, serialized
Parker Kinfolks, Standard Knife Co., Christmas Tree scales.

What a shame, all nice knives. I have noticed this happening alot to newer knives.
I have recently had this happen to two Case knives a 3254 USA and 4318 ten dot.

[knife7knut]

What type of an environment are you storing them?All knives should be stored in an area where there isn't a lot of temperature/humidity variation and NO direct sunlight!Celluloid handled knives should ALWAYS be stored separately from other knives even if they show no evidence of out-gassing.It only takes a very short time for that process to come on and destroy other knives.
Don't know what to do about the curling;don't think it is reversible.I only have about a dozen celluloid knives and they are in a separate box well away from other knives.I have had handles go bad on several and the only cure was to remove them and replace with a more stable material.I had one that the handles didn't deteriorate visibly but actually corroded the brass liners inside and caused them to break apart.I posted pictures of this awhile back in another thread.Here is a shot.

[Redrummd]

Have any of you tried storing these in an inert gas such as argon? Argon is easily available from welding supply companies and a lot of people who weld have a bottle of argon/CO2 that they could give you a shot of. Heck, even I have a bottle in my shop.

[jerryd6818]

What type of an environment are you storing them?All knives should be stored in an area where there isn't a lot of temperature/humidity variation and NO direct sunlight!Celluloid handled knives should ALWAYS be stored separately from other knives even if they show no evidence of out-gassing.It only takes a very short time for that process to come on and destroy other knives.
Don't know what to do about the curling;don't think it is reversible.I only have about a dozen celluloid knives and they are in a separate box well away from other knives.I have had handles go bad on several and the only cure was to remove them and replace with a more stable material.I had one that the handles didn't deteriorate visibly but actually corroded the brass liners inside and caused them to break apart.I posted pictures of this awhile back in another thread.Here is a shot.

The knives are in one of those 24 knife folding book looking "knife rolls". Up until a year ago they were kept in an office type safe along with all my other knives and a couple of pistols. About a year ago, I moved all three "knife rolls", "books", what ever you want to call them, to an unsealed gun cabinet that I have in the spare bedroom (safe is in the same room only in the closet)

So maybe I should remove all the celluloid handled knives from the "knife cases" and wrap, package them individually? Maybe in wax paper??? Would something that breaths (cloth) be better? Damn dude. Those are some ugly prospects you're showing me there.

[Owd Wullie]

Check out this thread.
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... =2&t=15346

Shows what happens when sunlight hits unstable celluloid.

You can also see how the brass liners were turning green under that stuff.

Your knives are nice and I hate to see that stuff going south. Keep an eye on 'em.

[orvet]

Jerry,
The third knife down in your first post, the Parker Kinfolks Standard Knife Co; is the celluloid discolored on it, or is it a trick of the camera?
If it is as discolored as it seems in the pic, then I recommend you remove the celluloid handles and put bone or stag or even wood on it so it doesn't completely destroy the knife.

That happened to this Case.

In the process of disassembling it both liners broke in half.
I had to get another frame to put the blades in and put bone handles on it for a customer.

The best place to keep your celluloids is on a shelf out of sun or fluorescent light where the air can circulate around them.

Check our this article on OKCA's web site.
http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/celluloid_02.html

Dennis did a good job on the article.

Dale

[jerryd6818]

Jerry,
The third knife down in your first post, the Parker Kinfolks Standard Knife Co; is the celluloid discolored on it, or is it a trick of the camera?
If it is as discolored as it seems in the pic, then I recommend you remove the celluloid handles and put bone or stag or even wood on it so it doesn't completely destroy the knife.

Dale

Dale, if the handles on this particular knife get destroyed, for me, the knife is destroyed. Parker had a series made called the Kinfolks Series, using old Case names. There were a few stag handle, a few bone handle and eight celluloid handled knives. I collected the celluloid series because I liked their looks.

Standard Knife Co. - Christmas Tree handles - Spear main & pen secondary (this is the one you asked about and no, it's not discolored. Just a poor picture.)
Standard Knife Co. - Pearlescent handles - Spear main and spatula secondary

C.Platts' Sons - Faux Abalone - Spear main & pen secondary
C.Platts' Sons - Duck Feathers (I think that's what they called it.) Spear main and spatula secondary

Kinfolks - Autumn Leaves (or tortoise shell or some such) - Spear main & pen secondary
Kinfolks - I don't know what they called this one. It's light blue with darker blue streaks - Spear main and spatula secondary

Crandall - Crushed Blue Velvet - Spear main & pen secondary
Crandall - Gold Speckled - Spear main and spatula secondary

The Standard Knife Co. with the Christmas Tree handles was the only one I was missing for the complete set with celluloid handles. I looked for most of two years before one came up on Ebay. Someone else wanted it as well so I ended up paying waaaaaaay too much for the knife but it completed the set. Now I hardly ever see any of this series for sale so loosing that knife would not be good.

[tongueriver]

This might sound absurd, but if I had some beautiful celluloid handled knives, I would remove the handles carefully and display them in a special case with plenty of aeration as art in their own right, and re-handle the knives. Otherwise, what choices do we have? Don't buy them is number one. Let them rot is number two. We can't save them. This has been amply proven. Recently, a gentleman on another forum most of us also peruse, berated the Case company up one side and down the other for not re-doing his celluloid fifth hand half-worn out knife. For free. Am I missing something here?

[Aimus Moses]

For out gassing cell handles, wrap them in an un-oiled clean cloth and put them in the freezer. It won't save the knife or the handles but it will slow the cell decomp down to a crawl and allow you enough time to rehandle or figure out just what you want to do with the knife. The freezer is the only thing I've found that has any effect at all on celluloid handles that are out gassing.

Aimus

[Knife Nut]

This is the same topic I posted back on Sept. 30th.
Celluloid is like a snake that is going to bite you. May be purty to look at, but beware.
It's not a question of IF the celluloid is going to out-gas, but WHEN it is going to happen. For that reason, I now stay clear of all celluloid handled knives.

[knife7knut]

It's not a question of IF the celluloid is going to out-gas, but WHEN it is going to happen.

I would respectfully disagree.I have quite a few celluloid handled knives and letter opener knives;some of which are nearly 100 years old and show absolutely no signs of deterioration.I have no idea why.I had a Robeson swing guard from the 1930's that was absolutely destroyed on one side and showed no signs of damage at all on the other.Still trying to figure THAT one out.
I would also suggest that you remove the knives from the knife rolls and store them flat in a wooden box lined with felt.Just supposition on my part but I think the material in the elastic in the rolls is a contributing factor in celluloid deterioration.You can buy felt by the yard at any yard goods store and cut it to fit the box.A word of warning:DON'T use adhesive to hold down the felt as there could be chemicals in the adhesive that would destroy the handles;especially synthetic ones.A couple of dessicant bags(the kind you find in shipping electronic gear)wouldn't hurt either.They can be re-cycled by heating in an oven(lowest temperature for about 30 minutes).Changing them every few months is a good idea as well.

[jerryd6818]

All opinions and suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you one and all.

[Luckypaul777]

I like the celluloid handles; especially the old "Christmas Tree" and had a few ; that wanted to outgas. And have quit collecting them; they can start deteriorating at anytime. Have had some that were fine for years; and went bad. I'll stick with the bones, stag, pearls and ivories.


Paul

[BIGHEAD]

Rip them off and have someone rehandle them if you don't want to do that please keep them AWAY from ALL your other knives

[jerryd6818]

Got my hands on some cigar boxes and lined the bottom of one with felt. Put that set of Kinfolks knives in it along with the two Case long tailed C knives and a 90's Winchester. It will also make it easier to monitor the situation.

[orvet]

This arrived today in the mail.
I bought it for the blade, it is a good thing I didn’t need anything else!


Here are a couple pics of the knife as I got it out of the package-

Here is the knife with the celluloid removed.
No wonder there is no snap with either blade!

This is not the worse case of off gassing I have seen,
but the frame of this knife is totally destroyed.
A couple little twists and the mark side liner broke completely.

The good news is both blades are salvageable and probably the backspring and lanyard loop as well. Not sure about the bolsters yet.

As attractive as celluloid is and as much as I like nice celluloid, when I see a knife like this I have second thoughts.

[Miller Bro's]

You should replace the liners and put new handles on, make it functional again

[tjmurphy]

[orvet]

You should replace the liners and put new handles on, make it functional again

I bought it for the blade for a repair, otherwise I would have rebuilt it.
I have made liners before, it is a lot of work, but it is definitely doable.