Guns & Gun Related Stuff

[treefarmer]

Unless you count my long ago departed 8 mm Remington Magnum I have not yet reloaded any .32 cartridges that have magnum in their name. I have reloaded for adjustable sighted S&W K frame .32s, a .32-20 and a .32 S&W Long. The .32-20 was a scarce pre-WW II M&P Target. I loved it.

I was always wanting a lever action in .32-20 .... if I could find one, (Winchester? ) I think they were around back in the olden days. It seems like a great 'lill cartridge for a lever action.

Alright GSPTOPDOG, here's one one of those old Winchester 92's:

Winchester 92 mfg 1911 32-20 ser#59XXXX

Just whetting your appetite, Brother, this one ain't for sale.
Treefarmer

[Modern Slip Joints]

Another octagonal barrel M.92 .32-20 owner does not want to sell his beauty for my pocket change? Unbeliveable! It's men like you that got me started firing cast bullets through the inexpensive surplus rifles of the day.

I'm smelling a market opening that could be filled by Henry, Rossi or some one. I've seen Winchester M.92s that neglectful owners did not clean after firing corosive ammo turning their barrels into small dia. sewer pipes. The local gunsmith would love to replace one of those barrels. That could be a more affordable option.

[GSPTOPDOG]

Alright GSPTOPDOG, here's one one of those old Winchester 92's: Just whetting your appetite, Brother, this one ain't for sale.
Treefarmer

.... T.F. ... that is downright cruel, showing a poor feller a beautiful old Winchester 92 AND refusing to sell it to him for pennies on the $1.00 ... not fair I tell 'ya!!!

[GSPTOPDOG]

I had a Marlin in .44 mag with the micro-groove rifling and I used to reload and shoot lead .44 bullets for a .44 pistol, man oh man that micro-groove rifling did NOT work on lead bullets at all. I wish they had made it with conventional rifling back then.

I had a Marlin lever action chambered for the 444 Marlin, and it was the same thing, wouldn't shoot cast bullets. The Microgroove went away in favor of Ballard type rifling when Cowboy shooting became popular.

... That make a lot of sense, because the Cowboy shooting crowd probably account for a large number of sales. I remember checking my target at 100 yards with that micro-groove rifling on a lead bullet and the bullet was perfectly key holed.

[GSPTOPDOG]

*The GP 11 (Gewehrpatrone 11) is a 7.5×55mm Swiss cartridge known for its exceptional accuracy and performance, primarily used in Swiss military rifles.
Development: The GP 11 cartridge was developed in 1911 as an upgrade to earlier Swiss military cartridges. It was designed for use in the Schmidt-Rubin series of rifles, including the Model 1911 and the K31.

It's been years since I gave up looking for GP11 because it seemed to be extinct.

I had a good store of it set aside; my accuracy nut buddy always says that it was/is actually match grade ammo. It was about $.55 per round when I was buying it ... and man that sounds cheap nowadays... I asked the accuracy buddy to bring me a case GP11 when he came to my town to visit me. He lived a couple of miles from a huge ammo wholesaler that had it in stock back in the day. They had a retail store in the front of the Wearhouse. I told him I had cash ready to pay him back. He told me "No! you have enough ammo already! You don't need anymore!" ... ...

He was really particular about ammo... he would only load 10 -20 rounds at a time, anymore and you were risking quality control. He hated all other surplus ammo because it was not accurate enough for his standards, except for the GP11, he approved of that. At the range he might take the entire time there (2-3 hours) to only shoot 9 to 12 rounds....

... I sure do wish that I had that case of GP11 today....

[Modern Slip Joints]

While I never owned even one GP11 cartridge I'll comment on the round anyway. In the early 1980s K-31s were $1,000 rifles. To put that in perspective very good (VG) condition Remington 700BDLs with inexpensive scopes cost $250, various VG S&W .357s were also $250, Excellent S&W Model 10 .38 Specials were $150 and VG original condition 1911 rifles were $90 to $125. A small group of Swiss citizens used our range to requalify with their K31s. All Swiss men had to spend a couple of years in their military followed by remaining in the reserves until age 40. They could miss a year or two of annual reserve active duty if they were living over seas and did a few things including mailing home their K31 qualification targets. At home scores were posted on the wall in places like grocery stores. Boys being boys it was competitive. That situation forced their military to issue accurate GP11 cartridges.

The silver colored jackets on GP11 are soft steel. Sweeden's issue 6.5x55mm issue cartridges also had soft steel jacketed bullets. The best 200 yard groups I ever saw fired with any nation's issue ammo were shot with 6.5x55mm through a falling block single shot with a loooooong bull barrel. Its owner was a professional coyote fur hunter who used FMJ bullets to reduce wound damage. GP11 was pretty damn good too, at least fired in K31s. The then current Swiss automatic rifle was rumored to be pretty accurate with GP11 but I never saw one.

[GSPTOPDOG]

While I never owned even one GP11 cartridge I'll comment on the round anyway. In the early 1980s K-31s were $1,000 rifles. ... GP11 was pretty damn good too, at least fired in K31s. The then current Swiss automatic rifle was rumored to be pretty accurate with GP11 but I never saw one.

Very interesting MSJ .... .... I AM VERY FOND OF THE 6.5x55 ... Here is a 6.5 converted to 8mm ... and a 200-yard shot with 1944 stamped miliary 8mm ammo. the shot ended up in the bull as shown by the pencil pointing at it.... ... however.... that bull's-eye turns out to be just a long-lucky-shot in the end....

[cudgee]

While I never owned even one GP11 cartridge I'll comment on the round anyway. In the early 1980s K-31s were $1,000 rifles. ... GP11 was pretty damn good too, at least fired in K31s. The then current Swiss automatic rifle was rumored to be pretty accurate with GP11 but I never saw one.

Very interesting MSJ .... .... I AM VERY FOND OF THE 6.5x55 ... Here is a 6.5 converted to 8mm ... and a 200-yard shot with 1944 stamped miliary 8mm ammo. the shot ended up in the bull as shown by the pencil pointing at it.... ... however.... that bull's-eye turns out to be just a long-lucky-shot in the end....

May have been a lucky shot, but we'll take it.

[GSPTOPDOG]

May have been a lucky shot, but we'll take it.

Mate... why can't I have that luck with the lottery tickets? ...

[cudgee]

May have been a lucky shot, but we'll take it.

Mate... why can't I have that luck with the lottery tickets? ...

You KNOW it doesn't work that way.

[GSPTOPDOG]

May have been a lucky shot, but we'll take it.

Mate... why can't I have that luck with the lottery tickets? ...

You KNOW it doesn't work that way.

...I recon' that's the John Dory, mate ... ... ....

[Modern Slip Joints]

I owned three memorable 6.5x55 mm rifles. (I worded it that way because I may remember more.) The three were a very good original condition Swedish Mauser with about a 29 inch barrel, a WW II Swedish Army simi-auto AG-42B Ljungman and an otherwise original but rechambered very good condition long barrel 6.5 mm Arisaka. I fired some surplus approx. 156 grain round nosed cartridges through the Ljungman but never fired a factory cartridge through either bolt action. On windless days with the light perfect I fired 200 yard groups with both bolt actions that were so tight readers might not believe it.

The Ljungman shot O.k. at 100 yards but strung groups vertically at 200. However, it was fun to own. The Ljungman's sight elevator could be switched around to follow the trajectories of both the Swedish military's heavy bullet RN cartridge and their newer faster spitzer load. I carried the heavy old Ljungman around elk hunting but never got to test how it would do on elk. I made it function perfectly with 160 grain bullets cast in an NEI mold by using very slow burning powder. Its gas port was a long way from its chamber. The slow powder provided both low pressue for the lead bullets and high enough pressure over the gas port. My castings grouped pretty good too.

Unlike common WW-II 7.7 mm Arisakas the early 6.5 mm Arisaka had bright polished bluing and a brightly polished bare steel bolt similar to early Mausers. Most likely it was rechambered to 6.5x55 mm so its owner could use more common brass and reloading dies. Maybe he was alreadly reloading for Swedish rifles. I'm not sure if a little metal was removed from its magazine feed lips. It fed perfectly.

If I could have afforded everything I wanted I would have bought one of the 1980s Remington 700 Classic 6.5x55 mm rifles. Remington had to build it on their long action. I used a US 1917 Enfield action as the basis for a 6.5-06 wild cat that I used deer and prarie dog hunting but that's getting off topic.

Enjoy your 7.5s and 6.5s.

[GSPTOPDOG]

The Ljungman shot O.k. at 100 yards but strung groups vertically at 200. However, it was fun to own. The Ljungman's sight elevator could be switched around to follow the trajectories of both the Swedish military's heavy bullet RN cartridge and their newer faster spitzer load.

Years ago, I shot a buddies Ljungman AG 42b and man did I like that gun and round. I looked for one for years without any luck finding one. I finally did find one a few years ago and was shocked the other day to see a couple for sale .... nowadays at 2x the price I paid for mine ... It is a real pleasure to shoot, ... just something about it, maybe the history and the interesting action on it... I love that gun . Mine shoots reasonably well .... however, ... I will NOT be breaking any world class accuracy records anytime soon with it ...

But I do still LOVE shooting it!

[cudgee]

The Ljungman shot O.k. at 100 yards but strung groups vertically at 200. However, it was fun to own. The Ljungman's sight elevator could be switched around to follow the trajectories of both the Swedish military's heavy bullet RN cartridge and their newer faster spitzer load.

Years ago, I shot a buddies Ljungman AG 42b and man did I like that gun and round. I looked for one for years without any luck finding one. I finally did find one a few years ago and was shocked the other day to see a couple for sale .... nowadays at 2x the price I paid for mine ... It is a real pleasure to shoot, ... just something about it, maybe the history and the interesting action on it... I love that gun . Mine shoots reasonably well .... however, ... I will NOT be breaking any world class accuracy records anytime soon with it ...

But I do still LOVE shooting it!

Some guns you just like shooting. As you say, they just have something about them. Not to dissimilar to knives.

[GSPTOPDOG]

But I do still LOVE shooting it!

Some guns you just like shooting. As you say, they just have something about them. Not to dissimilar to knives.

well said mate!

[cudgee]

But I do still LOVE shooting it!

Some guns you just like shooting. As you say, they just have something about them. Not to dissimilar to knives.

well said mate!

To you and your family have a safe and Merry Xmas.

[Modern Slip Joints]

[...] was shocked the other day to see a couple [Ljungmans] for sale .... nowadays at 2x the price I paid for mine [...]

I traded for my Ljungman. Knowing I'd be treated like a pawn shop treats customers if I tried to sell a gun in a gun show I hoped to trade mine with another hobbist. Without any money changing hands in one isle I traded my gun for a different gun three times. I don't remember all the trades but I walked out of that isle with a very good condition Ljungman, a spare Ljungman magazine and a kit of Ljungman parts. I had $225 in my Ljungman. I read the troops armed with Ljungmans were issued their cartridges the same as troops with bolt actions and expected to always reload with two five round stripper clips. Extra magazines were only made for necessary repairs so they are scarce. The green canvas kit of small parts was issued to the highest ranking member of small squads. Fortunately they planned well. It turned out my Ljungman did not fire reliably because the foward third of its firing pin had broken of but was still in the channel. It was not hard to diagnose and very easy to replace it with one from the parts kit. Its unreliable function might have effected its former owner's willingness to trade.

ATF used to and I'd bet still does classify the Ljungman as a curio and rellic. Their actions certainly are different from what we normally see.

[1967redrider]

Alright GSPTOPDOG, here's one one of those old Winchester 92's:011.JPG
Just whetting your appetite, Brother, this one ain't for sale.
Treefarmer

If that's an octagonal barrel, we have one of those at the farm that belonged to my great-grandfather, chambered in .32WCF.

[GSPTOPDOG]

To you and your family have a safe and Merry Xmas.

Cheers mate I spent Christmas out in the desert on the shooting range... ... Soooo it was a very Merry Xmas indeed I hope you and your family had a very Merry Xmas.

[GSPTOPDOG]

[...] was shocked the other day to see a couple [Ljungmans] for sale .... nowadays at 2x the price I paid for mine [...]

I traded for my Ljungman. Knowing I'd be treated like a pawn shop treats customers if I tried to sell a gun in a gun show I hoped to trade mine with another hobbist... ATF used to and I'd bet still does classify the Ljungman as a curio and rellic. Their actions certainly are different from what we normally see.

The actions certainly are different from what we normally see. I guess that is why I am so fascinated with them. I only wish I had gotten as great a deal as you did on yours. But I am just happy in the end that I have one.

[Modern Slip Joints]

[...] I only wish I had gotten as great a deal as you did on yours. [...]

While it was agood deal at the time it was about 40 years ago. Prices of everything were lower. Ljungmans used the same hollow steel tube handle bayonets as the Sweedish Mausers. My Ljungman also came with a bayonet and frog.

In case you haven't figured it out, the chamber can be loaded without scaring all the game in the valley with a loud clang. With the safety on you can slide the bolt, bolt carrier and cover back and forth on the rails locked together. After filling the chamber, controlling the cover and carrier, unlatch them from the bolt and ease them back to the rear.

[GSPTOPDOG]

[...] I only wish I had gotten as great a deal as you did on yours. [...]

While it was agood deal at the time it was about 40 years ago. Prices of everything were lower. Ljungmans used the same hollow steel tube handle bayonets as the Sweedish Mausers. My Ljungman also came with a bayonet and frog.

In case you haven't figured it out, the chamber can be loaded without scaring all the game in the valley with a loud clang. With the safety on you can slide the bolt, bolt carrier and cover back and forth on the rails locked together...

Interesting point indeed And... I'll have to dig out my old hollow steel tube handle bayonet and see how it fits

[Rockingkj]

Recently finished engraving my Stevens 1915 Favorite.22. Still have to replace the butt stock

[treefarmer]

That's some mighty fine work!
Wouldn't even know where to start on something like that.
Treefarmer

[Corn Creek Cutlery]

Agree fully ... Beeeeautiful work KJ!