Rough Rider Knives

[Paul Z]

Anyone on the group care to comment on Rough Rider knives. I picked up some elephant toes & sunfish. They seem to be well made, but I'm wondering about the quality of the steel used for the blades. Some have arrived with a very nice edge on them, others could use a good sharpening.
I guess the best way to find out is to start carrying one & see how it holds up. Even if they end up being dud users, they sure are pretty to look at.
They're in the $10 price range, so even if I just look at them, I haven't lost a lot.
They also have some "leg knives" & pistol knives, if that sort of thing is of interest.
I also realize that they're Chinese made, & assume that that contributes to the low cost, and that they're not a high end collectibles, but they sure are pretty.

Paul Z

[longbeachbum]

I'm told a lot of the Chinese made knives are made with 440A steel. Not great but sure could be worse.

I have a Chinese made Magnum Bonsai sowbelly stockman in red bone that I have to admit, seems to be better made than a lot of my case knives. I'm not exactly an expert, but I've come to trust this opinion a lot more since I read a review by a fellow named Rod Neep on a Chinese made "Steel Warrior" knife that cost around $10, and he was very complimentary of the all around quality. This is the same guy who wrote the only negative review of a Moore Maker that I've ever seen. He normally reviews Case's, Schatt and Morgan's, etc. and he was very impressed with this Chinese slipjoint.

I'll try to find the link and post it. Very interesting.

Regards,

Jim

[Paul Z]

Thanks Jim.

Perhaps what I lack in knowledge/experience is backed up by instinct. I'm very new to knives, so I expect that I'll make some bad choices along the way.

Paul Z

[IGAF MO]

Your probably not going to belive me,but knife makers from CASE taught the people from Rough Rider knives how to make them.these knives are of great quility for how cheap they are.Ive carried a Rough Rider Toothpick(in my pocket and abused it in many ways)for about 14 months now,and yes they are nice to look at,espically when you know how cheaply priced they are.

[Jacques]

Hi. I have bought 41 Rough Rider knives over the last two month.
I am very impress with the quality of these knives and compare to Case knives, it's a real deal for the price.
The overall finish and sharpness is excellent. If you want them as shiny as Case for go to the buffer for a few minute and "voila".

I have plenty of Case knives that are better value for collectors but these Rough Rider are excellent value and quality.

Jacques :D

[Turkey Creek Tom]

All I can report is this! Recently I took the four whittler's shown in the picture to a morning gathering at a local coffee shop. I asked several men to examine the whittler's and pick the one they liked best. After opening and closing and snaps and shuts and thumbs and blah! blah! and feel and how pretty etc. The knife with the shield showing won! It got all votes. Some of the men used knives, a few collected, on man even has made a few custom knives, but they all picked the same knife as their favorite. The other three knives with shields not showing are well known brands and can probably be identified by most of the knife peopel who visit this site. Two of the four are called red bone handles, the winner and one other. The winner did have strike pulls and the others did not.
That's all I can ::blah:: ::blah:: about!

[Hukk]

I don't think much of the Rough Riders, in fact they are very useful to practice custom work on, that way I don't have to worry about ruining a REAL knife, I can toss it in the scrap bin without any feelings of loss, whatsoever. IMO the Steel Warrior is a far better knife, but I don't collect those either. I'd much rather save my money and have 1 or 2 Schatt and Morgan's or Canal Street Cutlery knives than 50 of these Chinese junkers. I would not compare today's Case or Bulldog knives to Steel Warriors or Rough Riders either, they're all inferior compared to the Case, Bulldog, Schrade and many other knives of the 70's and 80's! I find that the Steel Warriors or Rough Riders have poor or copied designs, poor quality bone scales, look like shiney plastic. Steel Warriors are better designed, but the knives are usually a poor fit for my hands. 440 steel, even 440C has been surpassed by many alloy steels made by CPM or Sandvick to name a couple. Even Hitatchi makes ATS-34, yeah they make the fancy TV's also. 440C still has it's place, there are just many more steels that are now better, Steel Warriors and RR's are not even 440C. Quality on the RR's is sketchy, different plant, different quality, some sharp, others are dull. Heck, you can take a piece of mild steel, heat it with an acetilyne torch and toss it in a bucket of water. Grind/sharpen it to a 15 degree angle and you will think it's the sharpest thing you ever held, until it gets used that is.
RR's are good to keep in the tackle box, but they make so many that they will never go up in value, if kept as a user, well, how many of these users do you really need? Diversify, go out and get some knives that have a chance of increasing in value. Buy enough so that you can PROUDLY carry quality users. RR's are not quality knives; Steel Warriors are quality knives though I hate to admit it.
Comparing a new knife to a 30 year old knife is really tough, how much walk and talk has that old knife lost after 30 years of use? I wonder if anything will be left of that RR after 30 years.
Canal Street Cutlery has brought back many older designs (OK, copied if you wish) using a vast array of metals. A2, D2, 19C27 Sandvick (tough and hard, 60-63 Rc) and 420 stainless. Schatt and Morgan, made by Queen also has been progressive in using these metals.

[justold52]

Hukk ; You said it will again.

I am glade some of us here at AAPK speak out when its needed to help the new collectors go in the right direction and not make as many mistakes.

Jacques, Paul Z Please do not get up set for what Hukk said he just wants to help you with collicting the better knives so you do not WASTE you money.

[johnnierotten]

I've never seen a RR or SW that didn't look like a $5 knife...I know, I know,you've heard it before but its true,YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!! If it looks like $5,feels like $5,cuts like $5,than it must be a $5 knife.
But I agree with HUKK and justold52,they are good to practice on and abuse..IMO that is..

[Jacques]

To answer to HUKK

I don't know if you have bought any recently made Rough Rider but the description of their components, quality and fitting is very wrong. You should take a look at their new Saddlehorn, a real delight, crisp walk & talk, excellent fitting, well polish. For the quality of the steel you are right it is only 440 steel but for me it's enough for every day use. I don't go to war with it!!

It is condescending the way you address this forum with no regard to other members. Some of us don't have the budget to afford high quality knives and are happy with collecting less expensive knives. And some how do have expensive knives are happy to find very affordable, good looking well made knives to add to their "tackle box".

The way you put down Rough Rider knives makes us feel like we are dumb people for buying them or even looking at them.

I will say for myself that I own a few hundred knives in all array of pricing. I have a Damascus and Ivory hand forge and hand made Laguiole that is worth in excess of 1400$, I have a few Case Select XX, some Case XX, many Case regular production and a lot of Case SFO, some Benchmade, Spyderco, Gigand, Boker, Puma, CRKT, Victorinox, Wenger, Buck, Queen's, Schatt&Morgan…you get the idea. Everyday I pick one out to carry in my pocket. I use them for everyday chores like opening mail, cutting things…

If I buy low price good quality knives I will treat it like all my other knives. This is the spirit of collecting and owning things that you like. Will you criticize people how collect napkins because they are made of paper and worth 1¢ each??

I do respect your choice of collecting EXPENSIVE knives but please respect the choice of others. Tell us about your beautiful expensive knives without rubbing it in the face of less fortunate people, putting down the thing they can afford and appreciate.

Thanks

Jacques
Quebec, Canada

[Jacques]

Oh I forgot, the name of this site it AAPK All About Pocket Knives...I don't see where it says EXPENSIVE KNIVES or CHEAP KNIVES it just says POCKET KNIVES

[Hukk]

I have my opinions and you have yours AND we are Both entitled to them. The majority of my knives are not expensive, mostly Bulldog but also many others including customs and is the result of a lifetime of collecting. I buy Rough Riders, Steel Warriors, and Owl Head knives every year, some I give away or sell, some I take apart and see what they have done and I stand by my OPINION that RR's have not made the improvements that Steel Warrior has, Owl Head is not even a distant third from my latest technical observations/inspections and I will not be likely to buy them again.
I merely state the facts as I see them (opinion), without regard to how much they cost or where they are made. I also stated that the current crop of Bulldog and Case knives is not up to par of what they were 25-30 years ago, I had them back then also. So, I would think that I'm being totally impartial as to who and where or how much.
I purchased a couple dozen RR's late last summer and some are torn apart out in my shop. As I said before, some knives are better than others, so they have an issue with quality and I stand by what I wrote, the obvious. Yeah, they have a decent saddlehorn, I look at Steel Warrior's saddlehorn and I see a better one but I don't really care for the Steel Warrior front bolster design (both were torn apart and put back together).
I simply wrote the facts (being Chinese is not an issue as my shop contains Rigid, Grizzly, and Central Macinery from China as well as US made Bader and Evenheat) as I see them and it was not intended to be holier than thou or condescending, merely my opinion after inspection/observation.
I don't feel I'm fortunate, I merely follow my own advice, save until I can buy quality, I sold many quality older knives at a huge profit to have what I have today.
For someone to feel anger over what I wrote is totally immature as the purpose of this site is to share knowledge AND opinions as well as facts, NOT to take things personally. No one should let their feelings get hurt just because they don't share someone else's opinion.
I gave my personal strong opinion, NEVER did I say "Don't Buy One". Granted, my opinions are strong enough to cause some not to buy them, but this is not the first time I have expressed my opinion on RR's.

BTW, I did say that the Steel Warrior is a quality knife and it is not an expensive knife. Therefore I don't feel as if I'm knocking cheap knives or putting down the "less fortunate". There are just better cheap knives than Rough Rider.

[Roger - 50/2050]

Howdy Boys,

I'M an old school knifer with old world values to reflect on in regards to knife use & collecting in the hobby, with that said I say buy & collect what you want, if you are happy with these Chinese made Steel Warrior & Rough Rider knives that's great but keep in mind that these knives are & will always be, "A DEAD DOG" in the knife world as far as value & collectibles go! ....Some of these knives may be good users only but the ones I have seen some of my newer knife collector friends buy for that purpose are now unhappy with them, I know that they have given them hard & heavy use & will not buy them anymore because of breakage! ....I feel that a test of time with these knives will change a persons mind & since these have only been out for short period of time how could any serious knifer give an accurate description on performance for them? ....Not trying to hurt anyones feelings or make anyone feel dumb here but plain & simple truth is what is needed to say to all my knifer friends about these import copy cats not to mention safety issues of using a knife that will not hold up in your hard working hands!


"Texas collector", Roger - 50/2050

[olderdogs1]

I buy Rough Rider knives mostly to give away to younger guys and maybe even to carry myself sometimes. I have also sold some to customers wanting a cheaper knife to use. They are pretty nice knives for the money and I don't hold anything against anyone who collects them or wants to buy them to use. I also own some Steel Warriors. But as Hukk has said, I don't think they will ever be really collectable or desirable to someone who hopes his knives will go up in value. Anyone who has handled any of the true 1st generation Bulldog knives or older Case knives will recognize that they have a distinct look and feel that is not evident in the newer knives by both companys and I suspect other company's newer knives as well. I can promise any new members that the people on this site are not running anyone down or trying to hurt anyone's feelings. They are just offering their well earned and well educated opinions in an attempt to help the knife community enjoy the hobby to the fullest. A person can learn so much by reading this information that is so freely given here. When I say this I don't just mean the new members as a lot of the old time members here will tell you that they too learn from this site all of the time as no one has ALL of the knowledge. I enjoy this site and have learned a heck of a lot. I have also volunteered things I might know with regard to older Bulldog Knives which are my passion. It is a give and take forum and I look forward to continuing to learn for a long time as I feel it is much more of a journey than a destination.

[CCBill]

I, too, think you should buy what you like. I don't own a Rough Rider or a steel warrior and won't, unless I happen to get one in a lot of knives, that I come across. I, personally(my opinion), prefer to support what few American cutlers that are still with us. I also like the Bulldogs(German) and SOME of the Bokers.
I really prefer older knives, but they are getting hard to find.
EVERYBODY is entitled to an opinion. My opinion is, I don't like these chinese imports that are flooding the market. All they are doing is taking American jobs. I've been collecting since the late 60's. Just think how many American cutleries have gone out of business since them. Most of that was because of japnese imports. Will the chinese imports finish them off? Looks like Case and Queen are the big ones that are going to make it. I certainly hope that Camillus does. Feeling this way may limit the length and breadth of my collection, but that is my choice. Give me American or German quality, anytime.
MY opinion. Like it or lump it.
...CCBill...

If you would like to send me any hate mail, you are welcome to send it to: [email protected]

[SFC ADP]

Nice post CC...
I agree that the Chinese market is killing the quality knife market. As a collector I think if you stay away from the low end knives, you keep the hobby of collecting alive and well for future generations. I would hate to see my son only able to pick up Chinese, Pakistan, Taiwan (JUNK). Far fetched picture, but supporting these cheaper brands will make a dent in the quality market. Instead of buying 10 RR knives, save your money and buy something that will retain its value. I learned the hard way. When I first got into collecting I went to the Swap Meets and if it had a blade I was buying it. 20 years later its hard enough to sell this junk in a garage sale for .50 cents.
There are plenty of quality knife companys that make an inexpensive knife, that you may be able to hand over to future generations, or liquidate to support your retirement, or whatever your ultimate goal is in collecting. You can't take 'em with you when your dead and gone, so I would prefer to leave my son something that he can enjoy.
Just my 2 cents on the subject!

[nmikash]

With all respect to everyone here, I do not feel it is the Chinese market that is killing the American cutlers. It is perhaps a single blow, accompanied by many others.

I believe that there is probably an overall decrease in the market for knives nowadays, as compared to say 50, 30 or even 20 years ago. They are viewed by many as weapons instead of the tools that they are. If a child were to take a knife to school today he would most likely be expelled.

Second, the Chinese market can not be blamed for the downfall of American cutlery. In the capitalist system, consumer demand drives the market. If consumers demand cheaper goods, producers will do what they have to if they want to compete. Buck, Gerber, Benchmade, Camillus (Schrade did it too toward the end) & others import knives from China/Taiwan because they know that people will buy them if the price is right. If you don't like this don't support it. I think imported knives are a greater threat to the user market than the high end/collector market.

That being said, I own a few Rough Riders & I don't think they are that bad for the price. The quality to price ratio is not bad in my opinion. I have no steel warriors for comparison. I don't have any hopes that they will be collectible, I just use them when I don't want to worry about losing/damaging one of my "better" knives. 98% of what I buy/collect is American made & I hope it stays that way. I do not think less of anyone who who buys what they like regardless of where it is made. Collecting is for the collector and in the end no one else's opinion matters. If you are looking for an investment you must consider what others will desire. Keep these things in mind and buy what makes you happy.

While some of us have (overly) strong opinions that they might like others to believe as fact, I don't think anyone is trying to hurt anyone else's feelings here. There are lots of great people here with tons of knowledge. It is in my opinion the best place to talk knives on the web.

Nick

[jonet143]

point well taken nick. this is a moot discussion.

[CCBill]

Hi Nick...
I respect your opinion 100%. There are as many different opinions on this subject as there are members.
You are right in saying, buy what makes you happy.
I will still buy and carry American made knives, as long as I can.
Knives are but one issue. It's hard, today, to know where most anything is made. So many products we buy and use, every day are from foreign countries. I won't stop buying sneakers, just because they were made in Taiwan. I won't stop buying Hot Wheels(I'm hoping for a Grandson), just because they are made in Maylasia.
But, because I am a knife collector, I will limit my knife buying, to American made knives and do what I can, as an individual, to support these companies.
Like Huuk, knives like Rough Riders are good to tear apart, to see what makes them tick. To someone that is trying to learn to make folding knives, break one down, to see how they fit together.
Not everybody is going to dress a hog or a deer with the knife they carry in their pocket. The average person is going to clean his fingernails, cut a string, or open a package with his/ her knife. I'm sure that RR's are perfectly capable of these chores. Carry one if you like, but I never will.
Again, these are merely my opinions. Thanks for sharing yours.
...CCBill...

[justold52]

("Jacques I have bought 41 Rough Rider knives over the last two month")

Why did you buy so many to add to you collection?

[Ratchet]

Maybe this is obvious to a lot of you who have been collecting for a long time... but what is the difference in an overseas pocket folder vs one made in the USA? The workmanship? quality of the steel and/or the springs??? Maybe this question should be posed to a worker who works in a USA knife factory?

Ratchet

[glennbad]

I would say all of the above...

I know American quality control isn't always the most precise, however most quality manfacturers buy their materials from trusted sources, that usually has to meet some standard of quality.

Next, the labor to make and assemble the knives is for the most part 2nd and 3rd gen. knife factory workers. Or at the very least, selected from the best possible pool of applicants. They are paid an acceptable wage. Overseas companies don't always have the best interest of the worker in mind, and can therefore pay what they want and treat the workers any way they see fit. (This is one of the things that Unions were originally developed to combat against)

And lastly, while I can't speak for overseas knife factory employees, I'd like to think that most quality companies' employees take pride in what they make.

Glenn

[Grizlly Adams]

Hi, I'm new here, and don't know much about collectable knives. I have been reading a lot on this site in hopes of learning. I sure like this site, and you fellas really know your stuff, so I am picking up lots of quality info! Thanks!

I will say up front, that I know NOTHING about the difference in quality of Chinese knives. I bought a RR once without even knowing where it came from. It worked as advertised, and I ended up giving it to a youngster who didn't have a pocket knife. (Don't seem right, a boy without a pocket knife!)

I was watching the Smokie Mtn Knife show the other night, and they had a fella on there from China. Mr Woo (don't know how it is really spelled!). He was introduced as "Mr. Rough Rider." Apparently he is the fella that is primarily responsible for the production of the RR knife. Poor guy was scared to death - had that "deer in the headlights" look! Interesting thing was that while he was stiff as a board for most of the "interview" (He spoke NO English), whenever he got a knife in his hands, you could just see him come to life as he flicked the blades open and checked for "snap." I don't know nothing about RR, but that guy was a certified "knife nut" if I ever saw one, and he was very proud of his product.

I don't know why, but that surprized me.

[Roger - 50/2050]

Howdy Grizlly Adams,

I was board so I was watching that same show for a few laughs that night! , I am really surprised that the President of SMKW (Kevin Pipes) was in that segment introducing that MR. whoever (owner & President of RR) as you were right my friend, he was stiff as a board alright!!! ....Friends, this is a prime example why I don't do any business with SMKW as they are promoting & making knife contracts with these Chinese knife makers putting more stress on our American knife makers & as a result, that is taking American jobs away!!! ....SMKW is supporting the Chinese just to make a few more bucks & that is really sad, I will side with my good friend CCBill on this matter in his post reply on page #1. of this topic & will not ever do business with SMKW as long as they continue to support the Chinese knife market! ....If ya'll want to send me any hate mail on this matter here is my e-mail address, [email protected]

Welcome to the Site Grizlly Adams!




"Texas collector", Roger - 50/2050

[jonet143]

what roger said.