anybody else think GEC is losing it?

[flynbulldog]

I just bought a GEC indian paintbrush jack - and sent it back.

I know how hard it is to get these knives but at this point the retailers have started charging the marked-up prices that we usually find on the secondary market, so waiting to find one from a "scalper" is no big deal - in fact I found the same knife on ebay for less than what I paid from the retail shop.

But I digress. The reason I sent it back was because the knife didn't exhibit the usual GEC quality; the finish seemed rushed, lots of scratches in the blades and the nickel, besides that the trapper/barlow pattern is getting a bit over-done (s... are they making anything else these days?) The dye job on the bone was plain, the jig pattern boring... you get the idea, honestly it was just an uninspiring knife.I jumped on it because I actually found one available but when it got here I was less than underwhelmed.

I've got many early GEC's and they are fantastic - but lately I've taken to collecting Schatt & Morgan and Queen made knives from the Bill Howard era and I'm finding the quality is far better than what we are getting out of Mr Howard lately. GEC has seen meteoric success over that last several years. Has that success gone to their heads? Are they resting on their laurels?

I think so.

[chickenman62]

I agree with you. When I look at GEC's next to my Queen Winchesters and Schatt & Morgans they look kind of cheap. The jigging and dye jobs are just boring. I actually tried to trade an Indian Paintbrush Ben Hogan recently. I know they are well made knives but they don't justify the prices. I even live only 30 miles away and thought I would go once a month for a new knife but I don't think so.

[dsutton24]

If you go back a few years Great Eastern knives were nice knives at a premium price.

The troubles of the past few years, the people who buy these knives, and GECs business model all combine to create the market we see today. GEC makes a fine knife, but the prices they bring are the result of market forces, not anything rational. And this is a problem with potential for trouble. Consumers look at hundred dollar knife they've purchased for four hundred, and just don't see the value. This reflects on GEC.

Retailers are taking advantage of the situation, they may well regret the situation at some point. But, the fact is that as long as hundred dollar knives continue to sell out at four hundred dollars nothing will change for either GEC or the retailers. The average guy saves up his money to pay extravagant money for something that is just nice enough that he doesn't feel like a total rube...

It's hard to know how it ends without somebody paying through the nose.

[C-WADE7]

You know on the flip side of that coin, I now look at my $70 Case and think what a deal I got even with it’s minor flaws. The crazy GEC prices make me appreciate what I am still able to easily purchase at a reasonable price.

[rea1eye]

The few GEC knives I have handled were all perfect. I did not know that lately
some of the newer ones are duds. Thanks for the heads-up.

Bob

[Mumbleypeg]

The few GEC knives I have handled were all perfect. I did not know that lately
some of the newer ones are duds. Thanks for the heads-up.

Bob

Some of the older ones were duds too. Although they aren’t prefect, and haven’t been, they have made an excellent knife with features (like blade swages) that were once common on all brands of quality pocket knives.

The problems of over-pricing, especially in the secondary market are not of GEC’s making. GEC has a business model that has apparently been successful - most of their output sells quickly. If buyers are willing to pay re-sellers inflated prices for their knives, that’s not the fault of GEC. Like most commodities the law of supply and demand (it has been operating for thousands of years ) is at work. And like most commodities the “bubble” will eventually burst, leaving a lot of people “holding the bag”.

I hope when it does GEC will be unscathed and continue as a successful Made in U.S.A. business. The resellers will likely be okay too. Those having bought the product at inflated prices and holding it when the bubble bursts …………

Ken

[Quick Steel]

I thought the earlier GECs were superior. I haven't bought one in about a decade but regret learning of the issues under discussion.

S&M held my attention, pulling me away from GEC. Not only did I consider the S&Ms a better value when finding the "right" one, but I also considered many of the S&Ms were more pleasing to me aesthetically. Somewhere in these pages, many years ago, I wrote that, "When S&M gets it right, they get it really right."

[cudgee]

From someone on the other side of the planet for whom GEC are nigh on impossible to purchase, i'm finding this a most interesting thread and reading.

[dsutton24]

I thought the earlier GECs were superior. I haven't bought one in about a decade but regret learning of the issues under discussion.

S&M held my attention, pulling me away from GEC. Not only did I consider the S&Ms a better value when finding the "right" one, but I also considered many of the S&Ms were more pleasing to me aesthetically. Somewhere in these pages, many years ago, I wrote that, "When S&M gets it right, they get it really right."

The aesthetics of most GEC knives don't do anything for me. I've got a lot of various Queen knives, they're instantly recognizable as whatever pattern they're supposed to be, and except for some of their output as the company was failing, they're always nicely made.

[robpa]

I cant fault 1 of my GEC knives, I only have 6. I hand picked them from an assortment and could hardly tell the difference from one to another, only in the coloring take of the bone. They are good.
I cant really kick on the pricing, at their store. prices reflect what the buying public will bear. I am all for that even if it prices me out of the take. I know they are dealing with price increases, labor increases, increased costs at all levels under the conditions created by this administration. Have ya priced steel lately? They are also having labor problems as are most companies, trying to hire competent workers. Bill is in there daily working his butt off. . They are pressured by their dealers to provide more knives, . all things push them to make as many knives as possible as cost effectivly as possible. this kinda puts a damper on knives which take more steps(time) to produce. That limits multiple blades, more precise grinds, more complicated frame styles, et cetera. I appreciate their dilema(s). I also have to step back on buying their products unless I really feel a connection to a particular knife I will spend up on. Foir now, its back to Scatts and Queens. I wish GEC the best. I wont knock them in any way. I am happy they are here.

[edge213]

I cant fault 1 of my GEC knives, I only have 6. I hand picked them from an assortment and could hardly tell the difference from one to another, only in the coloring take of the bone. They are good.
I cant really kick on the pricing, at their store. prices reflect what the buying public will bear. I am all for that even if it prices me out of the take. I know they are dealing with price increases, labor increases, increased costs at all levels under the conditions created by this administration. Have ya priced steel lately? They are also having labor problems as are most companies, trying to hire competent workers. Bill is in there daily working his butt off. . They are pressured by their dealers to provide more knives, . all things push them to make as many knives as possible as cost effectivly as possible. this kinda puts a damper on knives which take more steps(time) to produce. That limits multiple blades, more precise grinds, more complicated frame styles, et cetera. I appreciate their dilema(s). I also have to step back on buying their products unless I really feel a connection to a particular knife I will spend up on. Foir now, its back to Scatts and Queens. I wish GEC the best. I wont knock them in any way. I am happy they are here.

Good post

[dundak]

They make a nice knife and have carved a weird niche for themselves. I don't buy them anymore. Their patterns no longer appeal to me and the prices have become a little stratospheric. Hope they stick around and grow though.

[kris_kross]

I feel like the quality of GEC's is generally excellent, I've had a few with minor issues but that might have always been the case. I've owned a bunch over the years and still have a few. My edc is a GEC 56 and it's a great little knife. I've had a lot of other brands over the years as well, Queen, S&M, Case, etc. and I've found that quality varies greatly among those brands. In my experience it is only the very best examples of other company's knives that are as good quality as most of the GEC knives I've had. The GEC's that had issues have been very minor, a few scratches on the bolster, that sort of thing. Whereas I've had mint older and newer Case, S&M's etc. that had all kinds of problems--huge liner gaps, badly uncentered blades, and overall poor fit and finish. One thing I don't like so much, aside from the skyrocketing secondary market prices, is some of the goofier patterns/designs they've been doing--urban jack, tonail clipper, etc. come to mind. I like more traditional style knives and I wish they'd do more without shields, especially the sillier ones.

[centennialknives]

When i first joined AAPK earlier this year, I had never really paid attention to GEC before joining. As I poked around the GEC specific forum, I thought I'd pay more attention. BTW, I was soley focused on Case, both new and old when I joined. I had blinders on. Bought my first GEC here from the AAPK store. A model 38, made 2017 and never carried, priced reasonably yet more than when it was new. I fell in love!

Ended up, I purchased a few others "buy it now" on evilbay, and won them. I was simply stunned by the quality compared to the new Case knives (around 2005 and newer) I own. After asking a few questions about some of this ebay seller's GEC's, it ended up he was listing all his GEC's on ebay, moving out of US to his home country trying to raise money. Yes, he had many, many other knives for sale. Short of it is, he gave me his number, we talked on the phone for about an hour, and I ended up buying all the remaining GEC's he had all at once -- 16 more -- for a decent price. Some I might have spent a bit much, but others, compared to current prices, were a bargain. Most are stag, several have low production numbers, and all are stunning, to me. Now, don't go thinking I'm trying to impress -- it was a fool's task, and since then I've been selling a few of my Case knives to even things out.

My point is, is the market sets the price. Someone asks $$$$ for something, and its always gone for $$$, and it sells, well the market just set a new price. As far as quality, I've not found it lacking, in all of my almost 4 months of GEC collecting. Are there GEC patterns/handles that don't interest me? Sure. I guess the thing here, is my perspective as someone who only recently "discovered" GEC, I'm still in the honeymoon phase!!!!

BTW, I have been scooping up an unhealthy amount of Queen's as well. Still like my old Case's, but wonder what kept me blind for so long?

[1967redrider]

GEC comes along with a knife that grabs my attention every now and then, but I usually don't agree with the price being asked. The dozen or so I have (not including club knives) seem to be near perfect in fit & finish, maybe I've gotten lucky?

[flynbulldog]

Don't get me wrong guys, I started out as a huge GEC fan and I've collected a few over the years - nearly all of them have shown the same great detail, fit and finish as Bill Howard's earlier products out of Queen Cutlery.

My complaint isn't even the pricing, A lot of folks have discovered how nice these knives are and the rising prices reflect that.

My disappointment is mainly the same as what others have stated here; silly names and patterns with cartoony shields and etches. Too many boring trappers and barlows, and not enough real traditional pocket knife patterns... and this latest knife with a finish that reminded me of a rough rider

My older GEC's are exceptional and aside from this last example I can take nothing away from them, but I still look at them next to my Schatts and think that Queen got it right all those years ago.

[flynbulldog]

They make a nice knife and have carved a weird niche for themselves. I don't buy them anymore. Their patterns no longer appeal to me and the prices have become a little stratospheric. Hope they stick around and grow though.

[saltwaterebel]

They sure lost me. I buy but few GECs now. My latest was the 39. It is not even in the same ball park quality wise as the earlier runs (2010-2015-ish). The 39 I bought has a weak snap. Except for the couple 86s i bought couple years ago. all others the last 5 years or so have weaker snap. GEC knives have devolved in to what I call "collector queens". Gimmicky knives like the urban jack and that latest bottle opener thingy barlow has turned GEC into a Fad. I switched to collecting only vintage Case and Robeson because they were not limited number made for collecting only knives, they were made to be worked like hell. I think Mumblypeg said it best; " like all commodities eventually do, that bubble is gonna burst" it will be a shame if GEC itself hasten this.

[flynbulldog]

This thread was started a while back but I keep watching GEC and hoping for something beautiful. Now they've devolved into making single blade jacks with no bolsters and cheap synthetic covers. I see them pop up for sale and it takes less than an instant for me to click away. I'm sad about it.

Worse than that other companies have started doing the same thing: cheap to make single blade trappers with no frills and crappy man-made synthetics.
I haven't bought a newly made knife in years...

[chickenman62]

Another comb knife kind of says it all.

[Mumbleypeg]

We live in a world where most people don’t expect excellence. Those who do are called racists, bigots, etc. Standards have been lowered, so that everyone can “pass”. You get what you accept.

The result is “Gettin’ by on gettin’ by” is now the standard. Employees have no investment in where they work, or the product they produce. Pride in workmanship is dead. For the most part cutlery is no exception I sympathize with guys like Bill Howard, trying to get quality products out of today’s labor force. This kinda explains it all:



Ken

[Nate]

IMO
GEC with Bill quality is marketing genius.
They started the tube and the artwork grabs your attention. The hat pins are also collectible.
Who else is making combs and bottle openers with matching shields.
How many new knife companies are using their model (jack wolf, Daniel’s family).
GEC actually brought me back to knife collecting. So happy I can collect US made, and look forward to seeing what they are releasing next. I used to only collect German blades and some Seki. Case and other older US companies never had this much appeal for me.
IMO

[Rookie]

I don't mind their gimmicky knives as long as they bring out good old historic patterns as well. If it gets to be where every release is some novelty knife, then it won't hold my attention. I would prefer better handle materials, as micartas and acrylics aren't appealing to me.

[robpa]

Yeh, do we need more comb knives, or cap lifters? Im sorta new to collecting GEC, about 8 so far. I like knives that look like knives not toys. The plastic is a real turn-off to me. I go to GEC about once a month and come home with something I like but there are a lot I hardly look at. I leave feed back with joan, Bills wife , who runs the store but ??? Im just 1 guy. They sell everything they can make. Its kinda hard to argue with their success but , am I the only one getting tired of gimmicky stuff.
I know 2 others who have given up and gone to daniels, and in fact, I have my first daniels on the way. GEC jigging kinda sucks for me too. Sure the stag is running out but there is burl wood, camel bone, lots of stuff. Whittlers, stockmen, cattle knives, toothpicks 4 blade congress. I dont know, Just feel like unloading.

comb knives??

I should add, I do still support GEC. Just disappointed at times.

[knifeaholic]

My main interest has always been in the older knives of quality brands - but in terms of newer traditional slipjoints I always liked the Queen/Schatt knives including all of the other brands that Queen made on contract up until about 2012 including Moore Maker, Cripple Creek, etc.

So I tend to judge knives based on the quality level of the older Case knives and the Queen/Schatts from the 90's til 2012.

That said, last weekend I bought a small collection of 42 GEC's plus 2 Tuna Valleys and one Northwoods.

I just finished getting all of these examined and described to list on eBay.

I'm quite impressed with the Northfield GEC knives, which have a high level of fit and finish - less so with the Tidioute knives, though the Tidioute knives that I have still seem to be solid knives.

The Tidioute's seem to be more "hit and miss"...For example I have a Pemberton Jack in Micarta that is not impressive at all - very rough finish.

And I agree with what others have said about some of the patterns...a "beard comb"...seriously?...are they aiming at the "urban hipster" crowd?

Queen/Schatt certainly blew GEC away in terms of quality for the price point...though that matters not since Queen is no more. Modern Case knives seem to be at the quality level of the Tidioute knives with Case at a lower price point.

Though overall Case cannot come close to the quality of the Northfields.

Just my thoughts.