Canal Street 14-4CrMo Half Moon Trapper

[knifeswapper]

Anybody ever carry this 14-4CrMo steel? It looks very similar to 154CM.

[Hukk]

I had not heard of it before, but the description makes it sound like something I'd certainly like. Here is a link I Googled: http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheet. ... 197&ckck=1

Here is the composition for 14-4CrMo steel.

Carbon, C 1.05 %
Chromium, Cr 14.0 %
Iron, Fe 80.15 %
Manganese, Mn 0.500 %
Molybdenum, Mo 4.00 %
Silicon, Si 0.300 %

They are certainly close, 14-4CrMo steel may have a slight edge over 154CM which seems as if it can vary from batch to batch.

http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheet. ... efa8ab1e73

Here is the composition for 154CM.

Carbon, C 1.05 %
Chromium, Cr 14.0 %
Iron, Fe 80.95 %
Molybdenum, Mo 4.00 %

Yes, I'd certainly like to try this one, the 14-4CrMo steel!!

[Hukk]

Well, I ordered 2 from Mike and one I will EDC and put it through some paces. I enjoy working with many steels and this one is kind of like comparing tool steel with carbon steel - should be tough.

Instead of having mainly Chromium carbides like most stainless this one will have those to but will have a lot of moly-carbides. This steel should perform like 154CM, maybe even have an edge over it (the first batch was the best but they are closeing in on it). In a competent knifemakers hands I've from what I've seen on the internet, this steel, 14-4CrMo could go all the way to 63 Rc and not have to worry about being brittle.

So, its kinda like having stainless tool steel. I think I will have fun with this and I will offer my opinions!

[Froggyedge]

I've never even heard of 14-4CrMo but it sounds interesting.
That is a nice looking knife and testing it must be a work of pleasure! Looking forward to reading your opinions, Hukk!

[Hukk]

Ah, here is the chart I was trying to find. I bookmarked it this time. My guess about hardness was close, probably dead on with liquid nitrogen cryo.

I couldn't remember agrussel! My wife is right - I have no memory-run out of RAM.

This is a handy little chart to have!

http://www.agrussell.com/knife_information/steel_guide

[Froggyedge]

Indeed a handy steel chart!

I couldn't remember agrussel! My wife is right - I have no memory-run out of RAM.

I know the feeling...
Last week my youngest son made the following remark: "We really need to connect you to a brain someday..."

[Hukk]

I got both in the mail on Monday - lightning fast delivery to be sure. I chose one over the other for future tests and use, both look beautiful and I chose #5 because it had a thicker scale on the pile side - just a little. It is of a perfect size - IMO- at 3-3/4 closed even for large hands because I want dexterity in a folder. I much prefer a 3-3/4 over a 4-1/8 inch as the blades on a trapper seem gangly and too long at 4-1/8. This comment is for a Trapper, 4-1/8 on other patterns such as a Warncliffe Whittler or a Stockman are just fine. The stockman has the largest range of size that I personally find useful from 3-1/2 to 4-1/4.......I like them all.

Overall first impressions are great, the blade seems slender and made to slice and the knife seems sturdy, but not heavy. It is slender and will be friendly in my pocket. The front bolster is longer than a regular Trapper from Case.....Please see the pictures from the first post. That's one thing that makes this knife seem more elegant IMO, yet strong at the same time. The factory edge will shave hair from my arm with a little effort - but I feel that I can get it sharper....Likely hair popping sharp. For testing a knife, I will use a Lansky to take the Human element from the equation.

It will be a couple days before I actually do a little cutting - I have much to get done before I start putting the knife through it's paces.

[Froggyedge]

Sounds like a great knife! Keep us posted!

I agree that 3-3/4” is a great size for a Trapper. Sadly we don't see many of those.

[Hukk]

I haven't been as diligent with trying this steel as I would have liked. So far I have carried it daily and using just the factory edge 14-4CrMo steel performs quite well. I have used it around the shop and house and it is a very good performing steel.

I need to put my perferred edge on it now and see what happens. I am more limited than I thought with my shop time - I need knee replacements and the amount of time I can stand or walk is very limited without resorting to pain medication, both knees are bone on bone. No cartlidge is left - so, time to stop putting it off.

I will use a Lansky to get a very even edge since it's a tool many use, maybe I can even do a little rope cutting - see how this folder stands up to it.

Even though the steel is a close match for 154CM, I don't expect that they heat treated the steel as they would a fixed blade, which is my primary experience with 154CM.

So far with a factory edge it is far bettter than the other steels I have used from Canal Street Cutlery, those being 420 HC SS, A2, and Sandvik 19C27 seems better BUT that is a full tang knife and not a good comparison as the steel is quite hard on that knife.


14-4CrMo has more Carbon and has Moly which Sandvik 19C27 does not have. Even so I expect 14-4CrMo to perform similar to Sandvik 19C27 (can be treated to 60 - 63 Rc) and 154CM in an apples to apples comparison. 14-4CrMo is very similar in structure to 154CM, but the variable will be heat treating to see how they stack up against each other. That is in the hands of the manufacturers. I would expect that the Moly and extra Carbon in 14-4CrMo would make it tougher than the Sanvik steel.

[ea42]

Hukk, great post, I've been carrying this one around for a couple of weeks now and agree 100%. Very smooth lines, and a comfortable grip. It's been nudging my favorite EDC, the gunstock trapper, out of first place!

Eric

[Hukk]

Thank you, I'll do more on the steel later. But I find the single blade trapper to be very pocket friendly, and I've been carrying it daily and for many good reasons. The length for one is perfect, IMO. I also like the liners - Nickel Silver I believe, a nice change of pace from brass.

[Hukk]

Dang, I forgot about this. After carrying this knife with 14-4CrMo all summer I can say it is a really good steel to use. But I have to give the edge to 154CM for edge retention. 154CM is similar in composition but the proprietary process for Crucibles Particle Metallurgy steels is hard to beat. 14-4CrMo is a good steel, but 154CM is tops in my book.
I have a couple bars of CPM D2 and D2 steel. Be interesting to compare the Particle Metallurgy process vs. standard D2. I suspect I would have to get into some microsophy (sp?) to see a difference.

[Hukk]

Me Bad. 154 CM was developed by Climax Molybdenum Co and sold to Crucible. The original batch by Climax Molybdenum Co was excellent steel but they had manufacturing issues that affected quality. Crucible now sells 154 CM as well as CPM 154. CPM 154 uses the Powdered Metallurgy process which makes for smaller carbides with a more even carbide distribution. The steels have the same composition - just different manufacturing processes. I realized I goofed last night while ordering some CPM 154 for folders.

EDIT: Both are great steels!