Waiting for Switchblades in the mail

[jw517]

Is there anything quite like having switchblades making their way across the country via USPS? The anticipation of checking the Tracking each day( hour). It’s like Christmas coming. Then it’s tracked,” out for delivery”. You can hardly wait now. The minutes seem like hours. Then you start to think,”what if it does not get here”? What if the postal guy leaves it in the wrong box? What if it’s the guy up the street who is a nut? Paranoia sets in now. All of a sudden the tracking changes to “DELIVERED IN/AT MAIL BOX! Your shoes go on and off you go! You’re sweating now.Each step brings you closer to that mailbox. You throw the mailbox door open and THERE! There they are! Ahhhhhh!

[Gunsil]

And thank your lucky stars the PO doesn't x-ray packages since it is against federal law to send them interstate in the US Mail.

[Railsplitter]

That's right and if the seller ships it in an envelope, the risk is even higher. Those envelopes often get torn up and even ripped open when they run them down the conveyor belts. They could discover the illegal shipping without even looking for it.

I don't get it though. Many online dealers are more than willing to ship switchblades across state lines. Yet some like Buck won't do it without proof of qualifying credentials. Hogue won't do it at all. You have to buy their switchblades from dealers who are willing to ship them.

I've often wondered who gets in trouble, the shipper or the recipient or both.

[jw517]

Now I AM paranoid.

[Madmarco]

That's a very descriptive and totally accurate description of what it's like for me waiting for an auto to arrive, jw, but I get to enjoy the added stress of my knives going through Customs, especially if it's a high-end model that I've shelled-out US$500.-$1,000. for. I do all the tracking checking you mentioned, usually a few times a day, and have had extremely good fortune in receiving the current 55 models I own, but the fun really starts when the tracking say, "Arrived in Canada and will be presented to Customs for inspection". At this point it can go one of 3 ways. One, it can blow right through without inspection and this is the best but rarest outcome. Two, it can sit in Customs for up to 45 days before they're required to either release the package or seize it, although, it usually is only about 2 weeks IF it's getting released. And three, I wait, and I wait, and I wait and after waiting the hoped for 2 weeks and the tracking still hasn't changed I resign myself to the fact the package was X-Rayed, and upon seeing the outline of a knife physically inspected, and ultimately seized and destroyed for being a prohibited knife. I've only had 5 separate seizures and all were cheapos from China, so my track record definitely leans toward successful. Without the shipping arrangement I've made with a couple of Chinese sellers that has ensured the knife will get to me, I might as well set the money on fire, cuz Customs inspects more packages from China than any other place, looking for drugs. I've actually put those orders on hold, since I have all the inexpensive "click therapy" models I want, and I'm concentrating on higher-end auto models, along with certain manuals, but my biggest challenge is finding sellers who are willing to participate in my creative shipping method. I currently have 3 beautiful autos in the mail, one via an ebay seller that has a 50-50 chance of getting through, one from an Etsy seller who sends it via DHL since courier deliveries are usually more successful than USPS, and one via the Ukrainian Post that will eventually be turned over to Canada Post, but it's concealed inside another item and has been successful twice already.
I can't help myself, guys, I love my automatic knives so I guess I'm just a Postal outlaw!

P.S.- An additional aspect makes it easy for me to continue my smuggling ways, that being, Customs has yet to take any action against me other than their standard nasty "scare" letter threatening fines and/or imprisonment, and they've even ceased sending those, and I doubt that will change since there are far bigger problems to tackle than a knife enthusiast importing a few knive for his collection. At least not so far!

[INlesK]

I asked my local dealer about shipping. He can ship in state, Indiana switchblades are legal. But he won't ship out of state.

[1967redrider]

Virginia law just changed, I'm going to be totin' autos for an upcoming week soon.

[Railsplitter]

I asked my local dealer about shipping. He can ship in state, Indiana switchblades are legal. But he won't ship out of state.

You probably already know this but it’s illegal to ship switchblades across state lines whether the knife is legal in the shipped-to state or not. Unless the recipient can provide advance proof that they are a government employee.

Switchblades are legal here too but only for those of us who possess a valid Firearms Owners Identification card. (FOID card)

[INlesK]

Indiana does not have foid, so as a resident of Indiana I can legally buy from any Indiana dealer. Switchblades have been legal in Indiana since 2013.

[jw517]

Same with Wi. Used to be that because I had a concealed carry permit I could have switchblades then they relaxed this stupid law. Years ago it was against the law to sell margarine in Wi. “ The Dairy State”.. My uncle in Mn. Used to smuggle it in for us. Geeeeeee

[Railsplitter]

The laws for switchblade carry have changed in our favor in many states over the last several years but the law against interstate shipping hasn’t changed nationwide.

I’ve never known or heard of anyone getting arrested for interstate shipping so I guess it isn’t enforced very much. But it’s the law nonetheless.

[Killgar]

I'd say you very accurately described the experience of waiting for a knife jw517.

What I REALLY hate is when the Post Office website says my package was delivered, I go out to my mailbox, and there's NO PACKAGE!!! But the few times that has happened it showed up the next day, but only after I had a conniption.

Heck, we're still lucky. After all, remember back before the internet, and before UPS/FEDEX when ordering something meant waiting "6 to 8 weeks for delivery"? I sure do. Talk about anxiety.


As far as Federal switchblade laws, as someone who makes and occasionally sells switchblades I try my best to understand what Federal law says. There are two separate Federal laws regarding switchblades- US Code Title 15 refers to the prohibition on interstate commerce, and US Code 18 is the prohibition on using the Post Office to ship switchblades.

It has always been my understanding that the person shipping/sending the knife is the one breaking the law, since they are the one "introducing" the knife into interstate commerce, as well as the one dropping the knife off at the Post Office for the purpose of shipping it (if they use the PO).


On the same topic, years ago I started researching cases where the Feds actually prosecuted people for violating the Federal Switchblade Act, and I found three instances since 1985-

US V. Murphee, 1985. Glenn and Robert Murphee, father and son, were caught importing OTF "switchblades" into the US from Germany. The knives had no springs, but the Feds were able to demonstrate to the court that the knives were designed to contain springs for the purpose of making them switchblades. The Murphee's were convicted, and their appeal was denied. This refutes the old myth that importing switchblades without springs makes them legal.

US v. Nelsen, 1988. Douglas Nelsen was importing switchblades into the US and selling them through his mail-order company "Crowley Cutlery Co". Customs intercepted a shipment of knives, he got busted, was convicted, and his conviction was upheld on appeal.

US v. Spyderco, 2007. Spyderco got busted for importing butterfly knife parts into the US (from Taiwan I believe). The Feds consider butterfly knives to be "switchblades". Spyderco also got busted for shipping finished butterfly knives through the mail. They settled the case, paid a fine of $75k (if I recall correctly), and they lost $400k worth of merchandise that was seized by the Feds. They no longer import butterfly knife parts, or ship butterfly knives through the mail.

[jw517]

At least it seems they leave the little guys alone.It’s all sad. Next they will be pushing “knife Safety” bills. Maybe make it unlawful to possess a sharp knife?

[Madmarco]

I enjoyed Killgar's comments, but I have to disagree with one point, the one where he says importing an auto without it's spring still makes them illegal.
I can't state the exact case like he did, but there was a court case here in Canada accusing the citizen of importing prohibited autos, even though they contained no springs. He argued that the government can't prove that he will install a spring into his imported knives, the key word being "prove", for all they know he will leave it as a manual and not attempt to alter it in any way, and he won.
So, this practise has been used successfully since the 1980's with the Edgeco kits, and shows no signs of stopping and it won't until the law is rewritten.
The government did try to counter this move a couple of years ago by including knives with flipper tabs or assisted opening mechanisms on their list of prohibited knives, and unfortunately have been successful. Some guys went to court, and challenged the Customs agent to open their knife by flicking the blade out with just their wrist action, and although some could do it and some couldn't it was ruled that the knife was DESIGNED to open with one hand, whether the operator was skilled enough to accomplish the task or not. They now have included ANY knife that can be opened with one hand via flicking, spring assist, or any other means leaving fixed blades and slip-joints as the only legal knives to import or possess.
The 2nd auto I purchased had the spring removed by the seller, but Customs seized it anyway claiming that they could press the button and flick the blade out and complete lock-up, and it was seized permanently. I consider taking them to court, but in reality who can afford to fight their government who has unlimited funds over a $29.99 knife. I tried what they claimed they could do and unfortunately I was able to do it also, so I resigned myself to the fact I'd have to purchase my autos only from sellers who are willing to remove the blades and ship them in a separate package, thus reducing the knife to "parts" and so far still legal to import into Canada.
The silliest part of this entire thing is the reason my government uses to keep the law in place, that being, if a LEO was arresting a suspect and handcuffing them, while the LEO had one hand under control the perp could easily deploy a 1-handed knife with their still free hand and cause injury to the LEO. To that I say, what about 1-handed hammers, or 1-handed screwdrivers, or 1-handed kitchen knives, or.....well, you get it!
It's all designed to keep the masses under their thumb and dependent on them, and it comes at the cost of our personal freedoms.
Can you say REVOLUTION???

[jw517]

All these elected sheep need to be beat at the ballot box. Why don’t they make a law that says,it’s against the law to stab or shoot another person without a good self defense reason. Oh, they have that?

[1967redrider]

Same with Wi. Used to be that because I had a concealed carry permit I could have switchblades then they relaxed this stupid law. Years ago it was against the law to sell margarine in Wi. “ The Dairy State”.. My uncle in Mn. Used to smuggle it in for us. Geeeeeee

That sounds as bad as smuggling near-beer or Shirley Temples!

[Gunsil]

If anybody doubts the feds will prosecute for interstate selling of switches just ask Barry Adams.

[jw517]

Who is Barry Adams?

[No youre wrong]

Sure it’s good to be safe but if they were looking through mail for knives there would be 50,000 collectors in jail right now.

[Gunsil]

Who is Barry Adams?

Ah, you haven't heard of Barry, you haven't been into switches all that long. He owns Adams International Knifeworks these days but he used to have a huge mail order switch business out of IL if I remember. The feds busted him, confiscated his stock, and fined him and he was out of business for a few years. He was importing Hubertus, Boker, and some Italian autos. I bought many knives from him before he got busted, but I had an order in when he got in trouble and I never got my money back when he got back in business again. I don't know if he got jail time too, you could contact him and ask if you are curious. Since you like the autos I'm surprised you don't know the name, he is still one of the bigger dealers of them and has quite a selection.

[Bill DeShivs]

In the Murphee case, he was actually importing Hubertus lever locks. The US Customs dept. had already ruled that a knife that locked closed and was CAPABLE of accepting a spring without modification-was a switchblade. In addition, they ruled that importation of switchblade/gravity knife parts is illegal. Ask Sal Glesser of Spyderco.

In all of the cases mentioned, the subjects were warned beforehand to cease importation. In all of those cases, the defendants basically said "screw you" to the customs department and continued. This is never a good way to deal with them.

Kniferights.org is working on getting the federal laws repealed.

[jw517]

Ouch!

[Mario]

I enjoyed Killgar's comments, but I have to disagree with one point, the one where he says importing an auto without it's spring still makes them illegal.
I can't state the exact case like he did, but there was a court case here in Canada accusing the citizen of importing prohibited autos, even though they contained no springs. He argued that the government can't prove that he will install a spring into his imported knives, the key word being "prove", for all they know he will leave it as a manual and not attempt to alter it in any way, and he won.
So, this practise has been used successfully since the 1980's with the Edgeco kits, and shows no signs of stopping and it won't until the law is rewritten.
The government did try to counter this move a couple of years ago by including knives with flipper tabs or assisted opening mechanisms on their list of prohibited knives, and unfortunately have been successful. Some guys went to court, and challenged the Customs agent to open their knife by flicking the blade out with just their wrist action, and although some could do it and some couldn't it was ruled that the knife was DESIGNED to open with one hand, whether the operator was skilled enough to accomplish the task or not. They now have included ANY knife that can be opened with one hand via flicking, spring assist, or any other means leaving fixed blades and slip-joints as the only legal knives to import or possess.
The 2nd auto I purchased had the spring removed by the seller, but Customs seized it anyway claiming that they could press the button and flick the blade out and complete lock-up, and it was seized permanently. I consider taking them to court, but in reality who can afford to fight their government who has unlimited funds over a $29.99 knife. I tried what they claimed they could do and unfortunately I was able to do it also, so I resigned myself to the fact I'd have to purchase my autos only from sellers who are willing to remove the blades and ship them in a separate package, thus reducing the knife to "parts" and so far still legal to import into Canada.
The silliest part of this entire thing is the reason my government uses to keep the law in place, that being, if a LEO was arresting a suspect and handcuffing them, while the LEO had one hand under control the perp could easily deploy a 1-handed knife with their still free hand and cause injury to the LEO. To that I say, what about 1-handed hammers, or 1-handed screwdrivers, or 1-handed kitchen knives, or.....well, you get it!
It's all designed to keep the masses under their thumb and dependent on them, and it comes at the cost of our personal freedoms.
Can you say REVOLUTION???

Marco, if enough Canadians like you keep having the success you have with importing autos undetected, you may flood Canada with so many of them that the law becomes unenforceable! Civil disobedience for the win! LOL!

But yeah, your government’s reasoning for keeping those laws in place is silly and shows they’re watching too many movies. To be honest, I think they’re only hanging onto it because it’s just a revenue stream for the government. If somebody’s only offense is getting caught with a few prohibited knives, they’ll likely just seize them and issue a fine. Those fines equal big . The only way I could see someone doing hard jail time is if they possessed them while committing a more serious crime like armed robbery or assault or battery.

Your best hope is that the RCMP realizes how stupid it is and decides to stop enforcing it. Only way I could see the law possibly changing would be if you elect that Pierre fellow who’s challenging Trudeau. He said he wants to go back to the drawing board on the gun laws and undo some of the draconian crap that Trudeau has put in place. Here’s hoping he plans to tackle the knife laws as well.

[Madmarco]

Hey Mario, it's good to hear from you!
At one point, I, likely foolishly, challenged Customs to take me to court for the assisted knives I was importing and having seized. I said in a phone call that I would love to have a court hear all about their illegal practise of seizing knives that can readily and easily be purchased in Canada already, so why can't I import the exact same knives?
They never took me up on it, and now don't even send me their nasty letter about fines and prison when they seize a knife I'd ordered!
I think our best hope is a new government like you said, cuz that goof who runs the country now has gotta go!
It's not the RCMP that's the problem, it's Customs, the RCMP are the equivalent of your FBI or federal police, they simply enforces the laws when called upon to do so, they never bother anyone about knives, unless of course you're in the midst of stabbing someone.
I can feel my blood starting to boil so I'm gonna stop here, GRRR!

[Mario]

Hey Mario, it's good to hear from you!
At one point, I, likely foolishly, challenged Customs to take me to court for the assisted knives I was importing and having seized. I said in a phone call that I would love to have a court hear all about their illegal practise of seizing knives that can readily and easily be purchased in Canada already, so why can't I import the exact same knives?
They never took me up on it, and now don't even send me their nasty letter about fines and prison when they seize a knife I'd ordered!
I think our best hope is a new government like you said, cuz that goof who runs the country now has gotta go!
It's not the RCMP that's the problem, it's Customs, the RCMP are the equivalent of your FBI or federal police, they simply enforces the laws when called upon to do so, they never bother anyone about knives, unless of course you're in the midst of stabbing someone.
I can feel my blood starting to boil so I'm gonna stop here, GRRR!

Yeah, Customs seizing knives that are readily legally available in Canada is likely just another government cash cow. I don’t believe they really think these particular knives are a threat to the public. They likely do it because they want people to challenge them in court. Of course those challenges mean more court fees and more money being drained from your pockets and if you happen to lose in court, you’re doubly screwed in that you don’t get your knives and you’re left broke while the government makes out like bandits.

Anyway, don’t let it get to you. Chin up my friend.