"TRUE" Split Back Wharncliffe Whittler

[QTCut5]

I realize there's been a lot of discussion on the forum about what constitutes a "true" split back (or split back spring). Most people have never actually seen one due to the fact that this type of knife hasn't been made for over 125 years, at least not according to the original interpretation of the term. What many people call a "split back" whittler nowadays is actually a knife with TWO back springs separated by a wedge; however, based on what I have learned from the experts here on AAPK, a "true" split back is actually a knife with ONE spring that has been cut down the middle about halfway, thus forming two springs on one end to accommodate the small secondary blades while the main or master blade rides on the intact/uncut end of the spring. From what I understand, a "true" split back whittler is a very rare knife.

Which is why I was very surprised to find this vintage Shalen Noor split-back Wharncliffe Whittler for sale on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165312209795?s ... 1438.l2649

This knife is up for auction, so it's anyone's guess how much it will sell for. I'm not associated with the seller in any way and I am not bidding on this knife myself (although it is pretty cool and would be a great addition to any knife collection), but I'm guessing there are probably at least one or two members here who would be very interested in having one of these rare birds in their personal collection.

[gsmith7158]

No doubt Q, that is a very rare find. It will be interesting to watch that auction!

[petekuhn]

I am the high bidder Thank you so much for telling everyone its on ebay

[Mumbleypeg]

IMHO most of these knives actually started as two back springs, which were forged together on one end so as to be joined into one solid piece of metal on the forged end. Less common, I’ve seen an example (somewhere here on AAPK) of one made by cutting a single piece such that it had a separation into two springs on one end. That one had a visible kerf as would be expected when sawn.

Rare find in either case.

BTW Pete good luck. I won’t bid against a fellow member if I know it. To each his own.

Ken

[bestgear]

I won’t bid against a fellow member if I know it

....right there with you Ken....sweet knife for sure!

[QTCut5]

I am the high bidder Thank you so much for telling everyone its on ebay

Glad to be of service, petekuhn . Maybe someday you can return the favor (I'm always looking for rare Mini Trappers )

Good luck on the Shalen Noor...I hope you win it.

PS--Have you ever tried a snipe app like Gixen? It's a good way to keep your high bid a secret until the last second.

[Dinadan]

Cool old knife. I am sure it will sell way out of my price range, but thanks for the heads up, Q.

[tongueriver]

It is generally considered poor form to point out an active Ebay listing unless it is to show a counterfeit or something stupid or ridiculous. If I was Pete I would not be happy either. On the 'big' knife forum it is illegal to do this.
Meanwhile, it is true that nomenclature regarding modern-made whittlers is less than completely accurate. Also, I am always amused by the term 'backspring.' Totally redundant, as there are no side springs, top springs or any other kind of spring except plain old 'spring.'
Meanwhile 2: Anytime you bid in plain sight on Ebay, you have just bid against yourself. Snipe bidding by a sniping service is the ONLY way to do Ebay.

[ea42]

Welp thought I might be able to snag this at a halfway reasonable price but I guess that idea's out the window now that the whole world knows.


Eric

[Mumbleypeg]

It is generally considered poor form to point out an active Ebay listing unless it is to show a counterfeit or something stupid or ridiculous.

I agree. One of the cardinal rules of knife show etiquette is “never comment, interfere or interrupt an ongoing sales transaction”. The modern day equivalent of knife shows is on-line places like eBay. One should extend this common courtesy of the knife show to the modern day online equivalent of knife shows. The better way to call attention to an item is post it after the sale has ended.

We all want to see these “teachable” items but in order to not interfere with a transaction in progress, it’s best to wait until the transaction has completed. Counterfeits, humorous or outrageous seller descriptions excepted.

Ken

[edge213]

I don't think Q did anything wrong.
Active auctions have been discussed many times on AAPK.
From the posts it wasn't exactly a secret to begin with.

I bet the seller is gonna be happy though.

Also, personally I would not compare this to interrupting an in person transaction at a show. Just not the same thing.

[peanut740]

Looking at the liners and backspring the knife possibly has been apart.

[Dinadan]

It is generally considered poor form to point out an active Ebay listing unless it is to show a counterfeit or something stupid or ridiculous.

I agree. One of the cardinal rules of knife show etiquette is “never comment, interfere or interrupt an ongoing sales transaction”. The modern day equivalent of knife shows is on-line places like eBay. One should extend this common courtesy of the knife show to the modern day online equivalent of knife shows. The better way to call attention to an item is post it after the sale has ended.

We all want to see these “teachable” items but in order to not interfere with a transaction in progress, it’s best to wait until the transaction has completed. Counterfeits, humorous or outrageous seller descriptions excepted.

Ken

I have been a member of this forum for ten years and I never heard about this.


If we should "never comment, interfere or interrupt an ongoing sales transaction" then the whole Counterfeit Watch forum should be removed. And I do not buy into the idea that it is okay to make an exception to comment on a counterfeit. More than once I have seen a member, and not necessarily a newbie, point out a knife on Ebay as a counterfeit, and after some discussion it turned out that the knife was legit.

Personally, I do not think that it is my place or anyone else's to tell someone not to comment on a knife on Ebay. Especially if the rebuker is someone who sometimes makes comments about a knife that is for sale. In counterfeit watch or anywhere else. If it it is the rule not to comment, then do not comment!

[ea42]

Here's the thing; I spend hours per week cruising through Ebay trying to find knives that I've been on the hunt for for some time with hopes that I'll once in a while find a rather obscure one that hasn't caught the attention of every other searcher. This one fit right into that slot and though there might of course be a few folks who spotted it I'm sure it's nowhere near the number of people who actually search the big names, or "Sheffield Knives", etc. Now EVERYONE on the forum gets a blazing neon arrow pointing right to it. It just suddenly appears that all that work was for nothing.

Mel pointing out a blatant fake or misrepresented knife is a completely different ballgame, and I would hope someone would extend that courtesy any time they see fit. I'd have no problem with that whatsoever. Sure some turn out legit but a far greater number don't. I'm fairly certain the ones I've pointed out have been clunkers and the only reason I've pointed them out is to prevent someone from getting completely ripped off. If that seems hypocritical though I'll definitely refrain from posting there in the future.

Q I apologize if I was a bit short on that last post I made, it was just the heat of the moment after I'd spotted the post and realized that little obscure knife wasn't so obscure any more. I know there was no harm intended and honestly I'd much rather pass up a knife than ruffle the feathers of my friends here on the forum. C'Est la Vie, there'll be plenty more.

Eric

[Mumbleypeg]

Y’all can disagree, and obviously some do. Mel, what you quoted me as saying is a little out of context - please go back and read what I said. It was, and as far as I know still is, proper etiquette at knife shows. It sure used to be.

I never said it was ever a rule here. Seems from a comment made that it may be a rule on other forums - I couldn’t say since I don’t frequent those. I’m not generally in favor of rules, just courtesy. Maybe “poor form”, as Cal said is a better way of saying it. He made exception for counterfeits and the ridiculous.

I also excepted “counterfeits, humorous or outrageous descriptions”. No, I’m not perfect and did not intend to imply I am. I’ll try to do better, above exceptions excluded.

My post was intended to say perhaps applying the same “knife show etiquette” to on-line sales would be good.

Ken

[C-WADE7]

I have watch listed plenty of knives thinking no bids and 1d6hrs and thought I have a chance just to see it end with 12 bids at $175 all in the last hour. We all have to remember there are 10’s of thousands of people searching every day. That said I understand that pointing it out even as and example of a particular style does add more bidders potentially. In the end if you really want it you will be the highest bidder, price be damned.

[gsmith7158]

Someone who thinks they have found a secret bargain on ebay is just ridiculous. Come on now. Ebay is worldwide. No secrets there.

[1fartsmella]

Here is one I posted a few years back.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=63923

[btrwtr]

I think the one difference here is that this is a knife that many potential bidders may have overlooked. The listing doesn't say "True Splitback Whittler" which may have garnered more interest. Potential bidders that may have not even known what "True" means in this context could possibly taken the time to figure out that this knife is a gem in many advanced collectors eyes.

There have been plenty of times here on AAPK where a high dollar potential eBay knife sale has been pointed out. In these cases nobody has been upset because these are knives that are easily spotted and well tracked by potential bidders. No one cried foul in these many, many instances.

Spotting and posting any ongoing eBay sale here on AAPK is a far cry from the guy that comes up and sticks his fat nose in an ongoing transaction at knife show. All in all I think that posting any ongoing, online knife sale here on AAPK is fair game. This OP instance is a bit differnt in some respects but I don't think it's time to start drawing lines in the sand here.

[eveled]

The flip side. Many of us that might have bid on it. Wont now that we know a member here is in the running.

[bestgear]

Watching this thread has been very interesting. I'll bet we can all see all sides of this situation and the shades of gray that are everywhere. Plenty of good opinions have been shared in a peaceful and meaningful manner and for me, even thought-provoking.

I recall about 20 years ago finding a Remington Campfire Girl knife on eBay in #1 condition but nowhere were the words "Remington" or "Campfire Girl" used in the auction. The listing was something like "WOHELO Pocketknife Bone Handles" and I stumbled across it searching for WOHELO. I didn't tell a soul and wound up being the only bidder but the entire week I was on pins-and-needles hoping that I was the only one who found this poorly described gem for my collection.

I didn't think about it then but the thought provocation in this thread reminded me about the joy of the hunt and how my heart would beat each morning when I checked the auction to see if anyone had found my gem. I think most here would avoid bidding on a knife that a member was already bidding on ... but most is not all and hence I can understand the side of the story about not telling a soul, especially in a group of knife addicts.

Thanks for keeping the dialogue civil and on-point

[eveled]

The OP was trying to help us all incase we missed it. He found a gem and wanted to share. His heart was in the right place. He didn’t mean to hurt anyone. next time we will all think twice.

[Gunsil]

The flip side. Many of us that might have bid on it. Wont now that we know a member here is in the running.

That is a nice sentiment Ed, but I don't think it is true. Members here bid against one another fairly often I'm sure. I know I have been beaten on the bay by a member who knew I was after the item, probably happens often.

[gsmith7158]

I'm not so sure that's a nice sentiment at all. Some might accuse a group of collusion to keep sales prices down. I think if you were on the selling end that might be your opinion. After all it is good for the knife collector when knives sell at their actual value.

[espn77]

After all it is good for the knife collector when knives sell at their actual value.

I'm 100% with you Greg. Every time I see a Remington knife sell for big money it excites me. Sure I'd like to buy all my knives for low money but the more I buy for low money the more I'm driving the value of my collection down. The higher I pay the higher my collection goes up. It's great for the hobby when a seller get full market value for there knives. Knife collecting used to be an older man's hobby but I'm seeing a shift with a lot of younger people being excited about old knives. The hobby
is definitely not dieing out.