Black box Winchesters

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Ripster
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Black box Winchesters

Post by Ripster » Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:32 pm

Could someone help answer a question? The Black box Winchester knives come with the White and the Red lettering . Is there a difference between them ? The little that I’m aware of is there’s a Queen and Bluegrass Connection, and that’s all am aware of in that regard. The knives are keepers and keep them out and occasionally get a little therapy with them . So just gathering info on them . Bought them from a Friend and member here and they have meaning in more ways than one . Am not much of a new knife guy so these won’t get used . There’s a bit of a difference between the 1988 ( rifle shield) piece and the 1989 piece above it . The ‘88 is much smoother and easier to unlock. All knives are very well built and the stag,even though prefer bone, is a great feel in hand and looks nice.
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you
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JP

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Steve Warden
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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by Steve Warden » Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:44 pm

I can't help with any info, JP, but I can certainly offer up a compliment.
Those are sweeeeeeet!!!
Take care and God bless,

Steve
TSgt USAF, Retired
1980-2000

But any knife is better than no knife! ~ Mumbleypeg (aka Ken)

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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by wlf » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:34 pm

Congratulations JP great knives, in the GEC and golden age standard of excellence , because Bill Howard made them while he was at Queen.
I have collected the Winchesters too.
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]

May the Father and Son bless
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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by 1967redrider » Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:46 pm

Simply gorgeous!

Glad to see your post, Lyle, happy new year!
Pocket, fixed, machete, axe, it's all good!

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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by robpa » Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:10 pm

I am still researching the Winchesters but here is what I do know. They were made by Queen for Bluegrass. All my yellow print on black boxes are 92 production, all my red print on black are 90 or before. You could have a massive collection of Winchester for Bluegrass knives I have 2 typed pages of different models/handle patterns and thats just a start. I wont live long enuff to gather em all up, guess I have about 20 right now. I keep messing with other contract knives such as kinfolks, Primble, coon, Kabar and so on. With over 30 outside braned contracts its HARD to keep a straight arrow.

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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by Ripster » Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:12 pm

Hey Thanks Guys .
They’re great knives .
Robpa , in a short then all Black boxes are Queen / Bluegrass . And the different color label would be more significant to the Year(s) of production ?
Good luck with your Collecting .
JP

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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by robpa » Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:21 am

Not all Bluegrass Winchesters were in black, Ive a couple that were in white with red and buffalo & horse & rider graphics which are later production. I gotta go talk to my buddy. He was sales manager for Queen. Another guy down the road was shop manager but Ive not talked to him since he brought a mare to breed 20 years ago! I gotta go see him Those stag knives are a good bet, harder to come by and valued higher. Vey nice.

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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by GSPTOPDOG » Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:25 am

Ripster wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:32 pm
There’s a bit of a difference between the 1988 ( rifle shield) piece and the 1989 piece above it . The ‘88 is much smoother and easier to unlock. All knives are very well built and the stag,even though prefer bone, is a great feel in hand and looks nice.
::oh_my:: Wow! ::oh_my:: J.P. You done blown me away! :shock: What a beautiful addition to any collection 🤩! Well, thems' is my kinda' pocketknives ::not_worthy:: Don't put 'em under the swamp-cooler vent (if you have one) in mid-August like I did years ago with a box of high carbon fixed blades.

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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by doglegg » Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:47 am

Great bunch of knives JP. ::tu::

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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by Ripster » Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:00 pm

Thanks Fellas .
Might have to find one of those white box ones . Would like to get a Whittler.
Of all the newer knives have handled must say these are some of the nicest pieces have had the pleasure to hold .
Take care out there . ::tu::
JP

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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by luckydog64 » Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:28 am

Here is an informative thread over on Blade forums. https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bla ... 11/page-21. Here is a quote from that thread The Black Box Winchester knives that were first released (1987-1991) -- the ones with brown jigged bone handles -- came in black boxes with red lettering... with one exception, the model 1924 .All the model 1924 knives I've seen have a black box with white letters. I used this article few years ago to collect all the ones showing on page 21. Back when the average price was around 50 dollars for most of them.
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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by btrwtr » Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:27 pm

When these knives first came out the knife people I was associated with all anticipated these knives would be issued somewhat like the reproduction Remington bullet knives in that they would come out on a more or less yearly basis. That didn't happen and the knives were issued quite quickly, one after another. I think these quick releases diluted the market and buyers that were keen to acquire all the knives soon became overwhelmed with the number and dollar amounts as both quicky escalated.

In my view all of the knives were very well made. The bone and stag handled knives were the knives that collectors wanted. I think the brass handled folding knives and pakawood hunters further discouraged collectors that were originally keen to acquire all of the knives. All of this lead to a falling off of their potential collectability in the few years following the initial releases. Being as high quality as they are they now can still be found at what I consider bargain prices. Compare them to other quality Queen made knives under various brannd names.

Here is a price list containing the many of the first issued Winchester, Blue Grass knives. They are listed in order of issue. W 15 3949 being the 19th issue. The first 10 issued knives all had color flyers that showed the boxes. All red letter boxes with the exception of the first issue having the white print. The flyers for number 11 had no box pictured. The flyers that came after the twelfth knife did not include pictures with the boxes.
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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by Ripster » Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:24 pm

Lucky dog and Wayne many thanks for the response and info.
Wayne ,your thoughts on the value,demand,or lack of demand and interest is right on do believe. The prices several years ago for these was still low,now they’ve come up a little. Might be a good time to buy a few more as they’re a well built knife .
What years was Bill Howard involved and did the Quality drop after that period of time ?
Thanks much ::tu::
JP

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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by robpa » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:20 pm

I consider MOST of these knives to still be reasonably priced, tho they are escalating at a good pace lately. The fella I bought most from originally bought around 100 pieces from Bluegrass years ago and slowly sold them off. I got his remaining inventory.
he gave me about 40-50 of the colored 81//2 x 11 colored pages. He also gave me a Winchester value chart listing around 140 different knives patterns, etc. etc. including original prices and prices updated to 1995, This by Clarence Risner. I cant place it to here cause i am too computer illiterate!
an example is..W15 1924 1st release old rogers bone
heraldic shield. 1 blade original winchester stamping in 2 straight lines Winchester etch no made4173 built1987 original price$43.99 price 1995 $100.00
Prices shown in chart really vary by model, handle material, no produced.

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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by robpa » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:23 pm

I would like to someday this winter update the prices to a more current price level.. I just cant seem to get to it.

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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by LittleAugieMo » Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:49 pm

IIRC the stag knives weren't as "common" as the other handle material knives. Also in my experience the "brass" knives aren't near as popular

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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by Ripster » Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:28 am

LittleAugieMo wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:49 pm
IIRC the stag knives weren't as "common" as the other handle material knives. Also in my experience the "brass" knives aren't near as popular
Brass knives ,not aware of that one?
The Stag doesn’t seem to be as common as you stated. Are the Stag ones that much more or didn’t they make as many with Stag handles ?
JP

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Re: Black box Winchesters

Post by btrwtr » Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:35 pm

Most of the first knives were bone handles with a few brass handles mixed in. The 22nd and 33rd issued knives were the first of the stag handles. 36, 37,38 and 4o were stag handled and mostly larger frame, handsome knives. The stags are not near as common and sold for more money retail than the similar pattern bone handled knives. Soon afer the stag knives appeared there was a mix of handle materials were used to include bone, laminated wood, brass and celluloid. Issue 39 marked the first of the celluloid handles. These celluloids, like many of the imported celluloid materials from Germany of this time frame proved to be unstable and outgassed. Again the Stag and Bone handels were the favored knives and the other materials did not go over well in large with collectors.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.

Wayne

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