What Qualifies as “New”?

[tvic]

I just got two new Case knives in the mail. When I took the first one out of the box, it was obvious it had been unwrapped at some time. Whoever rewrapped that brown paper that Case uses didn’t do a very good job. On inspecting the knife, the bolsters had some mild scuffing - a little more than I’d expect direct from the factory. I opened the second knife - wrapped tightly as I would expect from the factory. I inspected this knife, and the bolsters looked nice and shiny. So my question is this. Do reputable dealers/stores that we all buy from regularly (I’m not talking about EBay sellers) take returns and then resell them as new? This is not something I’ve really thought a lot about being fairly new to the hobby, so I really don’t have an opinion one way or the other .... yet. Just curious for others’ thoughts.

[Mumbleypeg]

I have unwrapped, coon-fingered, and re-wrapped new knives for decades. Sometimes I buy them but sometimes I put them back in dealer stock because there was something about the knife I didn’t like. Could be I was looking for one with nicer covers, or one with better walk-and-talk. (Mostly subjective). I try to re-wrap them carefully, as near to the way I found them as possible. Maybe others aren’t as careful. If you bought one I unwrapped and examined, you probably got one of my rejects.

Regarding the scratches, I can’t help you there. I have never returned one I’ve carried.

Ken

[1967redrider]

It wasn't an SFO was it?

[tvic]

Nope, just your regular, mass produced trapper.

[Ivoryman]

Once looked at a knife the seller said was new. Then later in the description he wrote that he had carried it for a couple weeks, opened some mail, but no real use he said. It showed some scratching, spotting etc. I could not believe what I was reading. To me if the knife has been carried and handles for two weeks it's not new. It's not even close to new, it's a seller that is lying to you. I have griped about this and maybe it's my pet peeve. New to me means in the original packageing, never used, carried, sharpened, cut anything, never exposed to pockets, wear, scratching, more than minimal opening and closeing, dropping, dinging, corrosion spotting etc. Basically as it came from the factory except maybe for taking out for pictures or show off. But all this other makes them used, not new. "New" is a term grossly abused sometimes in knife selling and it's sad. IMHO. Your definitions may vary.

[ea42]

tvic was the knife you described from a dealer? If so it sure sounds like it was used to me, especially with the funky wrapper. At the very least it's been out of the box and slid around on something. I don't know of too many (reputable) manufacturers who let scuffed bolsters out of the shop. You might see some polishing swirls but not actual wear scuffs.

Eric

[just bob]

This is from eBay.

Condition
New

A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item (including handmade items). Please see the seller's listing for full details.

Used

An item that has been used previously. See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections.

After a knife is opened it is sold as M, NM, or actual condition. Although eBay doesn't support those guidelines. If I owned a store, I would not let a customer open boxes trying to find the knife with the best blade snap or nicest bone. I know a guy that sells a lot of $$ Zippos' and he told me had a buyer come in wanting to buy some high dollar lighters but wanted to insist on removing the orange stickers to make sure the dates on the inserts matched the dates on the outer casing. He told him to take a hike.

[Modern Slip Joints]

In gun collecting one of the nearly universally accepted things required for a gun to be new is that it was never before sold at retail. Consequently, if you are not a store the best condition you can advertise is like new. That requires all the original box and packaging and manufacturer's instruction sheets and leaflets still be present. No one requires a new gun to still be in the factory's box unopened. That would be an unreasonable expectation because it would prevent the store putting it on the shelf. When it was sold and put back in the box the wrapping paper was not refolded exactly the way the factory did? Lots of luck claiming it's not before the store clerk hands it to you. Also, if it acquired a scratch rubbing against other guns on the store shelf it is still new, not ideal, but still covered by a manufacturer's warranty that only is good for the original buyer. I do not see why knives would be any different.

Stores usually want items that were returned because you changed your mind or didn't like the gift to be resalable as never used and new. However, their higher priority is the customer's continued business. That's one way scuffed bolsters get sold as new. It's not perfect but you could rub off the scuffs with a rag and metal polish in less time than it took to type out your question here.

I'm sure we can all agree that a resharpened knife is not still new. However, any Case knife can be sharpened to a keener edge using a stone with finer grit than the belt sander Case uses. If the sides of the blade are not marked and the angles are consistent most of us would prefer the sharper knife over a technically new Case.

[tvic]

tvic was the knife you described from a dealer? If so it sure sounds like it was used to me, especially with the funky wrapper. At the very least it's been out of the box and slid around on something. I don't know of too many (reputable) manufacturers who let scuffed bolsters out of the shop. You might see some polishing swirls but not actual wear scuffs.

Eric

Yep, from a dealer. Actually, I'm OK with the knife - I suppose it's minor in the grand scheme of things. It just raised the question, and I wondered what others considered the definition of "new" to be.

[OLDE CUTLER]

For some reason, this thread reminded me of a friend of mine that worked in a clothing department of a large retail store years ago. Their company policy on return merchandise was that it had to be NEW in the package and able to be resold to be returnable. However they had people who tried to return worn out shoes as new and get this, soiled underwear as NEW!!!

[just bob]

I used to live next door to one of the biggest tight wads on earth. He went to Walmart and bought bicycle tubes for his grand kids. He put the old ones back in the boxes, saved the receipt and a month later took them back and told them they were no good and wanted his money back. He said they gave it to him. I'm glad they moved. Kept wanting to "borrow" lawn mower gas.

[hardman]

I used to live next door to one of the biggest tight wads on earth. He went to Walmart and bought bicycle tubes for his grand kids. He put the old ones back in the boxes, saved the receipt and a month later took them back and told them they were no good and wanted his money back. He said they gave it to him. I'm glad they moved. Kept wanting to "borrow" lawn mower gas.

I once heard a woman talking on an airplane. She was bragging how she would buy a new dress for a special occasion, wear it for that occasion, and then return it the next day for a full refund. Worse yet, the woman she was talking to wanted to know how she protected the tags so that it would not look worn. She thanked the first woman for the tips and said she was going to try that trick for an upcoming wedding she was invited to. Upon arrival and when exiting the plane I told woman #1 that I thought her dishonesty was disgusting. She told me to mind my own business. I told her it was my business as my wife might one day buy one of her returns.