Damascus Question

[BamaFatman]

I was at the Parker show today and I trade and got a piece of Damascus that I would like to try and make a knife from. This piece is approximately 12" x 1 1/4" x 3/16". I would like to hand file it and I don't know what kind of file or where I might get a pattern to use for making this knife. I do know I will make a fix blade. I would like to be able to say I can make one of those before tackling a folder.

So question is , what file is best to use and where might I find a patter for blades so I can decide what I want it to look like.

[Hukk]

I was at the Parker show today and I trade and got a piece of Damascus that I would like to try and make a knife from. This piece is approximately 12" x 1 1/4" x 3/16". I would like to hand file it and I don't know what kind of file or where I might get a pattern to use for making this knife. I do know I will make a fix blade. I would like to be able to say I can make one of those before tackling a folder.

So question is , what file is best to use and where might I find a patter for blades so I can decide what I want it to look like.

Looks similar to Alabama Damascus, or one of there patterns.

I always recommend starting out with a purchased blade to put a handle on and go from there.

I would also recommend that you start with some annealed 1080 before you tackle Damascus. I can recommend Good steel suppliers if you need them.

IMO, it's good to start with a fixed blade and you can do filework if you wish. Unfortunately I have no idea where to find patterns; I would just start drawing until you see something you like. You will need a hacksaw to cut the knife out.

Once you have a knife blade made you need to think about the next step. For Damascus etching is next, that is after the knife has been shaped. I use 3:1 or 4:1 - water:Ferric Chloride. Etching is best if it is slow and steady. I have heard of guys etching with vinegar and water, but have never tried it.

Nicholson, Simmonds, and Oregon brands are best, IMO. What I like about Nicholson is that when you wear it out, you can make a nice knife because it's 1095, I don't know the others. Toss it in the wood stove/fireplace so it gets real hot and let it cool with the ashes until you can hold it by hand (annealing).

Following the etching and cleanup heat treating is next also for carbon steel. Damascus will be around 1500F and soaking at that temerature for a bit. (I would need to look in my heat treating guide at the primary steel, but there are generic recipes for Damascus) Once the heat treating is complete it will need an oil quench. The oil should be heated to 140F to help avoid thermal shock and the blade is quenched in oil until it can be held by hand. Differential heat treat is best left to solid carbon steel IMO because the Hamon it creates interferes with the Damascus pattern. Clean up the blade of all it's oil residue.

Once it is heat treated it is brittle and will need to be tempered down to it's desired hardness and I get my temps out of the heat treater's guide ($249.00 for Ferrous Metals) and draw it down to say 56 to 58 Rc. I recommend a double temper and sometimes add a cryo temper (dry ice or liquid nitrogen sandwiched between the 2 heat tempers, a heat temper should be last.

I have left a lot out such as edge thickness at heat treat and a couple other things, some use a powdered scale reducer from Brownell's to reduce scale that develops when steel is exposed to high heat. Scale can be tough to remove.

I just finished writing this and If I remember right; you have someone to help you with this. SOoo, I have put more in here than you need. Sorry about that!

Oh well, carbon 1080 is fairly cheap and I would go with that before attempting Damascus. But if you have someone to walk you through it, it would be extremely helpful.

Good luck!

[BamaFatman]

Thank you Hukk , I greatly appreciate it. And you are correct it is Alabama Damascus. I picked it up today at the parker show from Alabama Damascus Steel, out of Wellington, Alabama. I would like those Steel Dealers you were talking about though, You can never have to many supply lines.

[brucegodlesky]

Yep, good idea! learn to walk before ya run:-)
Hang onto that piece of pw and get a few others under yer belt.
As far as finding patterns, get a copy of one of Joe Kertzmans 2008, 2007, or any of the annuals. Spend some time looking at all the styles, shapes and designs. Another idea is get a few supply catalogs and look over their kit blades. Most every design imaginable there too.
If ya get one of the annuals, look for bladesmiths in your area. Might be one closeby that will advise you. bruce/birdog

[Hukk]

One good supply is Admiral Steel, where I have a $550.00 order of 1095 coming early next week.

http://www.admiralsteel.com

One guy I like to do business with is Kelly Cupples who sends the steel and you pay after you get the steel, nice in this day and age. Shipping is free for orders over $50.00. I bought some 1080 from him and sent a Cashiers Check the same day. Notice the powdered steels and mesh, if I'm not mistaken that's for the Mosaic Damascus, a little different than the pattern welded steel we usually see.

http://www.marksforge.com/steel_prices.htm

Ellis Custom Knifeworks is owned and run by Darren and Kathryn Ellis. The also sell a lot of forging supplies as well as oils for heat treating. I bought a couple of 5 gallon containers through them, a fast oil for 1095 and a slow quench for 0-1. Kelly Cupples also has a page on their site.

http://www.elliscustomknifeworks.com

Then there is Crucible who makes high performance stainless steels, here is a direct link to the knife steels. They may send you to Admiral for purchases.

http://www.crucibleservice.com/products/knife/index.cfm

Chuck Bybee and his family own Alpha Knife Supply and I always enjoy talking to them. I buy titanium here and I watch the sales/clearance page closely, bargains can be had. I met them at the Oregon show in April of 2007 and they do carry a lot of stuff. Another smart thing to do is to sign up for the e-mail notifications. Ordering off the emails is a smart thing to do and I do get a lot of stuff off the e-mails. Look around their site, they do sell blade steel.

http://www.alphaknifesupply.com

All the catalog stores-Jantz, K&G, and Texas Knifemakers Supply sell steel as do a few websites, but these are the places where they buy.

Another good site is http://www.usaknifemaker.com/store and his name escapes me at the moment, but he does have some great prices and hard to find items.

I can supply another list of Damascus makers if anyone needs one.

If anyone else has a steel supplier, please add to the list.

[BamaFatman]

Thanks again Hukk for the list. You have been a great help.
Any other who add to this list, i'll be watching this posts and greatly appreciate all info given.

[brucegodlesky]

Ray Kirk/Rakerknives carries 5160 and 52100.
There are a bunch of small guys out there like Ray who deal in smaller quantities of steel. Check somw of the other boards which have a supply section.
There is afella right now on Don Foggs forum selling 1 3/4"x1/4"x5" 5160 for $6 a stick.
Thats a pretty good price

[BamaFatman]

Thanks Bruce, do you have a link to that Don Foggs forum. I'll check it out.

[brucegodlesky]

Do search for DFOGGKNIVES.com and Bladesmiths forum should come up. A huge amount of experience there.

[Hukk]

I just happened to have the link in my favorites.

http://www.dfoggknives.com

This site contains a lot of information and definitions, TWO thumbs up!

Here is a link to the bladesmiths forum.

http://forums.dfoggknives.com

I would take Bruce's suggestion and google it anyway. There are a lot of sub categories. This should make it a lot easier, click below.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=DF ... gle+Search