Vintage Unmarked Folding Knives

kootenay joe · Post by **kootenay joe** » Fri May 10, 2019 6:13 pm

There are many old unmarked folding knives 'out there' in collections. The handles are usually of pearl, ivory or stag. The workmanship is tops. Many of these knives are quite exquisite. On some, the back side of master blade has a number inked on.
I think these knives are of German origin and older than about 1920.
Why were these not stamped with a name, manufacturer, retailer, etc. ? It seems odd that the maker would not want his name on such top of the line knives.
I think these all are sample knives used by knife salesmen to show potential customers who might order a run of knives; i.e. not to individuals who might buy just one.
Maybe they were unmarked to discourage theft as they could readily be identified as not a knife intended for sale ? Whatever the reasons, i think this was done by many or maybe most Solingen knife makers in a time before about 1920.
This is all speculation on my part. I have never seen an article, print or on line, that discusses these knives. They do merit discussion as they are some of the finest vintage German knives you will find.
I will get some pictures posted soon. If you have any of these knives please post pictures. And please post your thoughts on these knives.
kj

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Fri May 10, 2019 6:45 pm

Interesting post KJ. I'm sure I have a few that are just marked Sheffield or Solingen but no specific maker's names. Will have a look. I always wondered why.

OLDE CUTLER · Post by **OLDE CUTLER** » Fri May 10, 2019 6:51 pm

kootenay joe wrote:There are many old unmarked folding knives 'out there' in collections. The handles are usually of pearl, ivory or stag. The workmanship is tops. Many of these knives are quite exquisite. On some, the back side of master blade has a number inked on.
I think these knives are of German origin and older than about 1920.
Why were these not stamped with a name, manufacturer, retailer, etc. ? It seems odd that the maker would not want his name on such top of the line knives.
I think these all are sample knives used by knife salesmen to show potential customers who might order a run of knives; i.e. not to individuals who might buy just one.
Maybe they were unmarked to discourage theft as they could readily be identified as not a knife intended for sale ? Whatever the reasons, i think this was done by many or maybe most Solingen knife makers in a time before about 1920.
This is all speculation on my part. I have never seen an article, print or on line, that discusses these knives. They do merit discussion as they are some of the finest vintage German knives you will find.
I will get some pictures posted soon. If you have any of these knives please post pictures. And please post your thoughts on these knives.
kj

I know what you mean, it doesn't make sense to me either. When you think about it, to be in a knife making business you must have all of the following. You must have a building that you own or lease, a big selection of machinery and manufacturing equipment, a skilled workforce that you must pay good wages, and office staff with the space and equipment that goes along with that, a sales department that can get your product out into retail spaces all over the country, and after that is all said and done you make a product that doesn't even have your name on it! It has to be said that some companies relied on a blade etch instead of a tang stamp, which could rub off with use in a very short time. That does not apply to the statement above that some of these knives are vintage and still show no markings. I have to admit I don't get it.

kootenay joe · Post by **kootenay joe** » Fri May 10, 2019 6:57 pm

Here is one than i know is a sample knife. It came from Helga Kayser who died in the mid 1970's in Solingen, Germany. She was the last surviving member of the C.F. Kayser family and had all of their family sample knives. C.F. Kayser made knives from mid 1880's up to about 1939. I believe they made more contract knives than knives marked with their own name.
kj

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Fri May 10, 2019 7:06 pm

Beautiful knife

kootenay joe · Post by **kootenay joe** » Fri May 10, 2019 7:13 pm

When these knives were made most of the Solingen knife manufacturers were not large factory operations. They were more like small working shop type of operation. Much of the work was 'piece work' done in the home of the craftsman. For example some would do the hafting; be given the knives and raw handle material which they than turned into knives with handles which were returned to the manufacturer and then get paid. The same happened for a number of the steps needed to create a finished knife.
On top of this, Solingen had many parts manufacturers. They could supply springs, bolsters and even ground blades. Many manufacturers bought these parts rather than manufacture them 'in house'.
Hence even with a manufacturers name stamped on a blade it might not tell you much about who made it. This is also why vintage German knives from different manufacturers often look similar. The parts had all come from the same sources.
This might partly explain why sample knives were not marked. We collectors now are hung up on markings. Back in Solingen circa 1900 everyone knew of the out-sourcing so the name on the tang was not given much weight. It was the look and quality of the knife that people focused on.
Again, some of this is speculation. The out sourcing i have read elsewhere and it mostly applies to the smaller manufacturers like Hen & Rooster for example. There were large manufacturers with big factories that out-sourced much less such as Henckels and Boker and others.
kj

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Fri May 10, 2019 7:42 pm

This knife is marked Sheffield on the master blade. No maker's mark anywhere. Clearly a high quality knife made circa 1900. As you mentioned re Solingen KJ, lots of little specialist industries in Sheffield at the time. Different makers for corkscrews, scissors, button hooks, files etc supplied the cutlers who put them altogether.

LongBlade · Post by **LongBlade** » Fri May 10, 2019 9:29 pm

Roland - That is a special knife not only in quality but provenance

S-K - Great looking MOP multi-blade/tool sleeveboard

No doubt Sheffield quality...

Really interesting thread

and I have no answers to why... I do have a knife to add with just a location stamp... This is a turn of the 19th century sfilato made in Frosolone (and 120 yrs old now)... horn handle and all iron liners, bolsters etc - except for crack in horn the knife is hard snapping and tight - very lightly sharpened and still has grind lines from glazed finish... It is only stamped Frosolone - one of the 3 major cutlery centers in Italy... Not my usual in terms of collecting focus in terms of location but this was a very cool old knife found locally.. I had it authenticated by a current Frosolone cutler but he had no answer as to why just Frosolone as a stamp - he was very impressed with the age and condition..

kootenay joe · Post by **kootenay joe** » Sat May 11, 2019 2:43 am

Here is another unmarked sample knife from Helga Kayser. Like the one i show above this is an early knife, could be 1890's.
kj

kootenay joe · Post by **kootenay joe** » Sat May 11, 2019 2:49 am

Here is a 3 3/8" serpentine whittler with fine pearl handles. It has no markings. I think it is 'older', but older that what i don't know. It could be from U.S.A., Britain, or Germany. It is a fine example of a high quality unmarked knife.
kj

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Tue May 14, 2019 2:51 am

Here is one unmarked knife that I find difficult to believe someone wasn't proud enough of their work to stamp it.It has everything:4 blades;pearl handles sunken joints;and some of the nicest filework adorning the back springs.

kootenay joe · Post by **kootenay joe** » Tue May 14, 2019 9:52 am

Thank you S-K and K7K. The knives you have posted are exactly what i hoped for when starting this thread: absolutely top quality exquisite vintage knives with no markings that leave you wondering: "why ? " and "what is going on here ? "
Do either of you have an impression of probable country of origin ?
Lee, your big 'folding dagger' is impressive but it is marked and not the type of knife i am referring to. I think you understand but want us to see this very neat older knife

I'm sure there are more examples in AAPK collections so please post them
kj

LongBlade · Post by **LongBlade** » Tue May 14, 2019 12:59 pm

Sorry KJ - I saw S-K’s post with a knife with Sheffield so thought no makers marks but location

... Frosolone was a location

..

kootenay joe · Post by **kootenay joe** » Tue May 14, 2019 1:45 pm

Lee, it's fine. Your 'folding dagger' is old and very impressive, well worth showing. Threads often take 'curves' or side tracks that often prove to be very interesting.
I am hoping if enough of these high end unmarked folding knives get posted here, we might be able to at least ID the country of origin. I know many are German but are any British or USA knives ? So please post pictures if you have any of these knives.
I have a few more but need a bit of spare time to search for them.
Note: this does not include knives in which tang markings have been ground off. I am looking for knives that were never marked except possibly with ink.
kj

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Tue May 14, 2019 1:51 pm

Here are a few:
#1 A large aluminum handled folder possibly made from a fixed blade.I have a f.b. with the identical blade.
#2 a knife handle housing a pair of scissors & a button hook with sterling silver handles.
#3 A horn handled gent's folder with fancy back;possibly made by A. Kastor.
#4 One of the weirdest ones I've ever seen:a large folder that has a pruning blade that only opens 90 degrees;a strange looking master blade with a hooked point;a saw with a perforated nail mark and a folding bottle opener/cap lifter on the spine.
#5 An unmarked metal handled utility knife;possibly by Kingston as there may have been a marked bail on it.
#6 & #7 Two ivory handled knives(4 blade and 2 blade) that may be early English.Hand made nail mark and sunken pivot pin.
#8 A 4 blade lobster pen with pearl handles.
#9 & #10 Both sides of an unmarked whittler.Interframe sides with engraving and gold wash;low grade gold covers over the bolster area;screws for pivot pins(look original)and half stops on all blades.
I have more that I may post later.