Abalone Rumors

[Forensic Jim]

I spoke with a knifer friend last night who wanted to know if I had heard the rumor that Case was possibly not going to make any more abalone handled knives due to repiratory problems. I told him I hadn't heard that but I have heard of "consumption", that Hukk has posted regarding respiratory problems associated with working with abalone. Has anyone else heard this rumor?

[okbohn]

I haven't heard. I have seen the price of it steadily rise from all the makers I buy from.

[Hukk]

I spoke with a knifer friend last night who wanted to know if I had heard the rumor that Case was possibly not going to make any more abalone handled knives due to repiratory problems. I told him I hadn't heard that but I have heard of "consumption", that Hukk has posted regarding respiratory problems associated with working with abalone. Has anyone else heard this rumor?

That's one of those yes/no answers and let me explain both sides.
When working with abalone the major irratent is calcium carbonate - same thing that's in cement. Put an abalone shell in a bucket of Muriatic Acid at bed time and the only thing left in the bucket in the morning will be green slime. I've done it just to see what would happen. The green slime that's in the bucket is organic matter (ah some is the animal's own sh*t). This is the only animal I know of that has it's mouth next to it's butt (I'm sure there are other's in the ocean). SO, with all that said, cement dust is regarded as toxic, then so must the calcium carbonate that resides inside of the shell when it is released into the air. I have heard that there are CAL-OSHA guide lines for working with abalone shell. (I don't really know-I never checked into it becuase I where a respirator and take all saftety precautions). There are nay-sayer's who say you don't have to worry, but I disagree 100%. This WAS a Califorina thing as California is the only state that HAD a commercial Abalone Industry. Now that's Part 2 of the story.

The other side of the coin is that California had a Commercial Abalone season in SOUTHERN California ONLY. There has never been a commercial season in NORTHERN California. Somewhere south of San Francisco, the commercial area was south of Yankee Point. In 1997 the commercial season was closed and IMO, will NEVER open. One species, the most sought after is the White Abalone had a known population of 6 and they were all the same sex. The shells used to make knives came from california, the shells were only $1.00 each and now I have several shells over 10 inches and I have been offered $500.00 each. 10 inches is regarded as a trophy and are very rare. So with the closure of the commercial season, prices for Red Abalone sky rocketed. The availability of shell is scarce, making shell quite pricey.

Now the Paua population in New Zealand is in trouble, with the estimated ILLEGAL TAKE being 85% to 90% of the total catch. They will also have to take action to protect the resource.

In California it is illegal to SELL ANY part of the abalone that is sport caught. The fines for poaching can be loss of vehicle used to transport abalone that are illegally taken, loss of gear, loss of your home, $40,000.00 OR MORE and up to 3 years in PRISON.
That is correct and if the court choses to the fine MAY be all of the above. They WILL and have locked a poacher up in San Quentin, Pelican Bay and other prisons, not jail, PRISON. Forever, they will be a Felon with a charge of conspiracy against the state of California. The fines will wreck their lives. The wardens are targeting Asians and some have been caught more than once.

Well, I gotta go to physical therapy, I will be back later. This is one of my favorite subjects, as a sport diver, to follow the happenings of Abalone -Worldwide.

[Ringmaster]

That's good information, Hukk. Thanks, man.

I've never seen a live abalone, in my life ( a couple of shells, is all) - I always thought they were just a Mexican oyster ! I know, from nothing, about calcium carbide, maybe women with osteoporosis should be making the knife handles outta abalone ?

Jim, the "grinder's consumption" that Hukk spoke of, is medically speaking, silicosis - it's not tuberculosis, but the symptoms are the same. And it will kill you. You develop it, primarily, not from the steel OR the handle material - but from the sanding belts/grinding wheel.

The steel particles (sparks) from grinding will definitely hurt your lungs, but they'll eventually rust ( if it's carbon steel - stainless added a whole new dimension to the health problems of knifemakers).

That's about all I can add, Happy Grinding !

JR

[Hukk]

My mistake, I was thinking about what I wrote and the chemical is not calcium carbide. Where did that come from? They are very different substances.

It is calcium carbonate and many marine animals have this in their shell. Easy test is to drop Muriatic acid (cut Hydrochloric Acid actually) or Hydrochloric Acid onto the shell and bubbling will start fast, just as if you spilled it on concrete.

Calcium Carbonate will cause silicosis, just as JR said in his post.

If it is Calcium Carbonate and it becomes airborne, it does not matter what the souce is, shell or concrete, IMO.

[Savage1]

I can't add much to this but I do remember Bernard Levine I believe, once saying that one good dose of abalone/MOP dust can cripple some people.
and;
CASE is usually quite open to questions so it might not take much to clear up or confirm the rumor if one asked.

[Hukk]

MOP also contains Calcium carbonate, but when asked, most will downplay it's health consequences. Dust mask is not adequate - PERIOD!

Calcium Carbonate is the active ingredient in agricultural lime. Also this is the main ingredient in a lot of antacids used after a big Thanksgiving meal. It is widely used in many products and as binders in many pharmacutecals. It is widely used across the world.

Here is a link that can tell you much more than I.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbonate

Just because it is so widely used, many downplay it's airborne consequences.

[knife7knut]

I was always under the impression that the most toxic part of all mollusks that secrete nacre(the substance that creates the beautiful colors)is the greenish substance which is arsenic.

I did a small amount of grinding on some pearl material once in repairing a knife handle not using a mask and became quite ill in doing so.That is when I found out about the arsenic.

The big concern I have is not so much knife handles but women's jewelry.All too often I see women wearing either ear rings or pendants made from abalone or paua shell and it is laying against their bare skin.One of the really insidious traits of arsenic is it will leach through your skin on contact.

Silicosis is a whole other ball game.It occurs with the prolonged inhalation of grinding dust and is similar to what coal miner's suffer(Black Lung).

[Hukk]

I was always under the impression that the most toxic part of all mollusks that secrete nacre(the substance that creates the beautiful colors)is the greenish substance which is arsenic.

I did a small amount of grinding on some pearl material once in repairing a knife handle not using a mask and became quite ill in doing so.That is when I found out about the arsenic.

The big concern I have is not so much knife handles but women's jewelry.All too often I see women wearing either ear rings or pendants made from abalone or paua shell and it is laying against their bare skin.One of the really insidious traits of arsenic is it will leach through your skin on contact.

Silicosis is a whole other ball game.It occurs with the prolonged inhalation of grinding dust and is similar to what coal miner's suffer(Black Lung).

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it and it gives me something to research. This sounds weird but one of my diving partners could not touch the outside of the shell when the abalone is freshly harvested. His hands would swell up, hurt real bad in the joints and get a bad rash. He could handle the meat with no problem or the shell after it dried for a couple months.

Sorry to here about your illness and I do think you have something there. The narceous (sp? actually really slimey) is produced from the mantle. The secretions and dietrus (sp? sh*t) are organic matter that make the shell and it colors.

The abalone is an interesting and primative animals that have both antibiotic and antiviral properties including the penicillian-resistant staph, polio, (some) and influenza viruses.

They are also hemopheliacs (sp?), they may bleed to death if cut, so a dive knife is not legal to use and the abalone irons are regulated. If the tip is smaller than 1/16 of an inch you will get a warning or a $200.00+ ticket, depending on how the warden feels. All abalone violations go to court either as misdemeaners or felonies. There is no simple fine system, you automatically have a court date - PERIOD.

In the last 25 years a new organism came to our Sonoma/Mendocino County coasts. This worm burrows into the shell, eating the organic layers and leaving raw shells useless for knives, primary reason why about only 1.5%, +/- is usable for knives and why laminated abalone came to be.

[Ringmaster]

Man, I'm having a lotta fun, with all this info ! Thanks, everyone.

Just for an ignert Arkie - does anyone have a picture of a fresh abalone ? The very few shells I've seen had "holes" (sorta like pipes), sticking out of the shell - what are those for ? Does he/she/it feed thru them ?

(Maybe I'm getting away from knives, but I like to learn.)

Curious JR

[Hukk]

Those holes have a primative gill underneath to extract oxygen from the water. The number of holes and shape of the holes can help determine the species. The Red, White, and Flat Abalones all have red shells. Most people have never heard of the flat abalone because 7 inches is usually the maximum size and 7 inches is also the minumum size for sport harvest. But since an 8 or 9 inch abalone have much more meat, flat abalone are rarely taken, especially by divers. They may be taken by "rock pickers", who work the rocky shoreline at minus tides. Slippery and dangerous. I do know where to get 8+ inch abalone in ankle deep water, BUT, I ain't telling. But you do need to know how to use an ocean Kayak to get there.

Try it by land, it's in Elk California, and you may be looking down at double barrels of a 12 ga.

[Hukk]

Here you go JR, here are a couple pictures of abalone. The FOOT, once trimmed to white meat and pounded it will sell wholesale to resturaunts for around $140.00 a LB for FARM RAISED ABALONE

Sport Caught abalone can get you 3 years free room and board at PRISON if someone is foolish enough to sell sport caught abalone. That would be in addition to a very large fine, $20,000 to $40,000+ Most poaching activity is by an Asian minority though there have been a few urchin divers busted and they loose there boat and gear also, along with a ban that prevents the "busted" to be within 5 miles of the ocean.

The back of an abalone is really an entire "mini eccosystem".

[Forensic Jim]

God that's one ugly *#@%&*!

[Ringmaster]

Much thanks, Hukk !

Rather "expensive" treat, I'd say ! I can buy a lotta neckbones, and pig's feet for $140. Once the shell is cleaned, is the outside just as 'glamorous', as the inside ? I think I can see some color, underneath the green stuff ?

Aw, Jim - it don't look much worse than my ex-wife, in the mornings !

Thanks, guys

JR

[Hukk]

God that's one ugly *#@%&*!

Maybe that's why they are shotgun spawners aka broadcast spawners. They reproduce by the female expelling fertile eggs and likewise the male expells sperm to fertilize the eggs. The eggs and sperm meet by chance in the ocean waters that are always moving.
The male and female never touch each other to reproduce.

The male can be identified by it having a tanish to pinkish gut and the female has a green gut.

Abalone will grow so thick in some areas that they grow on top of each other. There are area's I know of that you cannot see the rocks because it is so thick with abalone. In these areas the abalone tend to be small due to competition for food (kelp).

It is interesting to note that abalone fossils have been found, older than Dinosauers.

Also interesting is that when divers see another diver or their partner in trouble, someone always yells, "get his abalone". True story and common happenstance.

[Hukk]

Here's an underwater picture from a book. This not really typical as there is a bunch of gravel present.

Also the water is very clear, many times I've been in water so thick with plankton that I can't see my hand stretched out in front of me.

Worst visibility I've been in was basically 0. Dove down to the bottom - Hands First and had to wait 10 seconds to see that I had an abalone under my own hand.

Actually that is not a safe habit to do and most of my diving has been solo, yes, another bad habit.