Classical (out) Gas

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Robo
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Classical (out) Gas

Post by Robo »

I just finished writing to an E-bay seller who is attempting to sell a straight line Remington Toothpick with celuloid covers (handles) that are so badly eaten up that I honestly can't tell you what style they were. I can't help feeling he must know what is wrong with this knife whose handles he describes as : "having no chips, but are badly cracked" but you need to give people the benifit of the doubt I'm told. I hope he pulls the listing because those who bid on it must not know why the handles are cracked beyond recognition or why there's a constilation of corrosion across the top of the blade. and this is way beyond being a fixer upper; my guess is the metal linings are already corroded.

So I think it's worth bringing up the out-gas topic again for those who aren't sure what it is or can't quite believe the phenomenom. I'll use my own recent run in with it as an example. The first two pictures of this un-marked medium toothpick are from the seller. I bought this in the January and thought at worst there was some deterioration underneath the handles caused by age. I was happy to live with this because It's a cool little knife I believe Utica manufactured for a boatload of wholesalers, etc. The last pictures are of the handles when I finally cried "out gass" and pried them off. Frankly, I ignored all the tell-tale signs because I always thought if the celuloid was unstable it would have out-gassed years ago. I always thought the survivors were safe.I also wrote-off the fine black corrosion that formed on the top of the blade as the result of humid Jersey weather. Fortunately I caught that in time and removed it before pitting set in.

Hope my tale of ignorance helps someone out there!
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artmcclure
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Re: Classical (out) Gas

Post by artmcclure »

Wikipedia has a good explanation of what "celluloid" is. The problems
caused by deterioration in knife handles is explained in the
"Environmental Hazards - Deterioration" section. I've talked to a few
people about the problem and some of them think that I'm making the
whole story up.
Art McClure
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Re: Classical (out) Gas

Post by eveled »

And some manufacturers still use the stuff! ::dang::
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Re: Classical (out) Gas

Post by knife7knut »

artmcclure wrote: I've talked to a few
people about the problem and some of them think that I'm making the
whole story up.
I guess these are all figments of my imagination then.BTW all of the knives pictured were saved by removing the offending scales(in the case of the Aerial coke bottle just one was replaced)except the Buck Creek lockaback and the last one. I have several more as well.
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LongBlade
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Re: Classical (out) Gas

Post by LongBlade »

Hard to refute out gassing of celluloid - here’s a pretty brutal example - I saw it this way in the middle of knives on display for sale in a shop and warned the seller he needs to remove it - he did and gave me the knife though he wasn’t quite convinced about the phenomenon :roll: ... nonetheless I stuck this in a closed box in my basement 3 years ago - actually never progressed any further but it is no doubt a dead soldier as seen in photos... it was an original Winchester too...
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Lee
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FRJ
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Re: Classical (out) Gas

Post by FRJ »

Here's another Fairy Tale. :mrgreen:
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orvet
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Re: Classical (out) Gas

Post by orvet »

artmcclure wrote:
I've talked to a few people about the problem and some of them think that I'm making the whole story up.
I don't believe in people who don't believe in celluloid off-gassing!

Off-gassing deniers are killing the planet!

:mrgreen:

::facepalm::
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Doc B
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Re: Classical (out) Gas

Post by Doc B »

That and a moon landing could never happen on this earth :)
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glennbad
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Re: Classical (out) Gas

Post by glennbad »

Here's a couple winners...
cell outgas 2.JPG
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Robo
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Re: Classical (out) Gas

Post by Robo »

artmcclure wrote:Wikipedia has a good explanation of what "celluloid" is. The problems
caused by deterioration in knife handles is explained in the
"Environmental Hazards - Deterioration" section. I've talked to a few
people about the problem and some of them think that I'm making the
whole story up.
I hear you, brother! I felt foolish telling this ebay seller the knife he was trying to sell would emit a gas that will eventually eat through the liners and blades and had the potential of doing the same to any knife is close proxcimity. It sounds totally sci-fi!
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orvet
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Re: Classical (out) Gas

Post by orvet »

Here are a couple examples of non-knife items being damaged by off-gassing celluloid.

This first item is a snap swivel that was laying in a tray about my workbench with a piece of celluloid from a Western fixed blade handle laying on top of it. You can see it is starting to work on the lower portion of the clip.
Offgassing Celluloid  affect on a swivel.jpg
This is an old soft face hammer that was celluloid that I purchased at a flea market. The celluloid and begin to crack and pieces were breaking off so I taped it up and I hung in next to this Stanley tack hammer. It hung there for about a month when I discovered the rust damage it was causing to the tack hammer.
Celluloid hammer rusting other hammer a.jpg
Celluloid hammer rusting other hammer b.jpg
I have seen other cases of non-knife celluloid deteriorating and causing problems. One prime example was a 1948 Chevrolet that had a celluloid steering wheel. Sitting in the sun in Southern Oregon it only took a year or two before the entire steering wheel was crumbled or crumbling in the entire surface of the car interior was coded also. Where it was steel there was rust, where there was chrome in begin to peel. It was kind of sad because I would’ve liked to restore that car, the body was straight as I recall but the engine on the running gear was shot. It would have been an expensive proposition to restore it.

Sorry no pics of the Chevy. ::shrug::
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knife7knut
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Re: Classical (out) Gas

Post by knife7knut »

orvet wrote:
I have seen other cases of non-knife celluloid deteriorating and causing problems. One prime example was a 1948 Chevrolet that had a celluloid steering wheel. Sitting in the sun in Southern Oregon it only took a year or two before the entire steering wheel was crumbled or crumbling in the entire surface of the car interior was coded also. Where it was steel there was rust, where there was chrome in begin to peel. It was kind of sad because I would’ve liked to restore that car, the body was straight as I recall but the engine on the running gear was shot. It would have been an expensive proposition to restore it.

Sorry no pics of the Chevy. ::shrug::
Dale: Are you sure the steering wheel was celluloid? Most of the early wheels I have encountered are made of casein plastic which is milk based. It usually gives off a horrible smell(vomit comes to mind)when it deteriorates. It does crack and crystallize much like celluloid will. The radio and other control knobs are usually made of casein as well and deteriorate. It will cause non ferrous metals such as aluminum to form an oxidate and eventually crumble but I haven't seen it happen with steel.
A lot of early tools used casein plastic for handle material and if left to set would form a white powdery coating on them.
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