Brass corrosion

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kenb
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Brass corrosion

Post by kenb »

Well, I've seen it and dealt with it before. Brass turning green. I was just going through a bunch of knives wiping them down and doing a little oiling and found a few that were really bad. My Randall model 18 had chunks of green corrosion on it as did one of my Silver Stags. I also just found a Kershaw Special Agent turning green. I cleaned up the others already and the Randall appears okay, but the Silver stag has some damage. All were stupidly stored in the sheath. I have some folders that are the same way. Seems that the old Schrades are very susceptible to this. Sometimes even when stored out of the sheath. The question is, how do I stop it. I have so many knives that routine maintenance could take a year if I go through them one day a week for a few hours. I haven't looked at the Randall in years, it was in the back of the safe. It was purchased about 1970-71. I'm cleaning them by hand with flitz . It's doing a good job. Should I wax them afterward? None of them are going back in the sheath. Now I have to dig out all the others and look.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by bestgear »

The green that you describe is called Verdigris which is the common name for a green pigment obtained through the natural patina formed when copper, brass or bronze is weathered and exposed to air over a period of time. It is usually a basic copper carbonate and can be cleaned just as you did. The most prolific example of verdigris is the Statue of Liberty.

Storing knives and sheaths separately will retard the process but not totally prevent verdigris from returning.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by Sharpnshinyknives »

Brass is a problem. I cleared out all the brass bolstered knives from my collection a few years ago. Got fed up w/ having to clean them w/ Simichrome every year or so. It just isn’t worth it. I won’t even consider buying a knife w/ brass bolsters, and anything that has been in a sheath is strictly off limits. Too many people make that same mistake of storing knives in sheaths. You are destroying your knife if it has brass bolsters and you leave it in the sheath.
I tried oiling the bolsters w/ SMKW Coon P Oil, gun oil, you name it, nothing stops it from my experience. If someone has a sure fire way to keep it from coming back, I would love to hear it. Then maybe I could buy some brass bolstered knives again. Until I find something that works, no more brass bolsters for me.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by knife7knut »

Knives should NEVER be stored in sheaths under ANY circumstances! Write this on the blackboard 100 times! :mrgreen:
Seriously though the problem of verdigris is not only with the brass guards and bolsters it is more of a problem with the brass rivets and snaps that adorn the sheaths.These can be a real problem.
To clean rivets and snaps I use a little Mother's Mag Wheel Polish on a rag and grip the head of the rivet between my thumbnail and middle fingernail(thankfully they are long enough to do so)and rotate them several times. Usually cleans out all of the verdigris and then I repeat the process with a bare cloth.
I have yet to find anything that will prevent this oxidation and I feel that oiling a sheath only exacerbates the problem.It is my feeling that any oil will accelerate the deterioration of leather'especially the stitching.JMHO folks;your mileage may vary.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by eveled »

Biggest problems I've had, have been with sheaths my dad treated with mink oil. I started to wipe my knives with clp, and never have a problem since. I store them in the sheaths. I don't polish my brass, I like the patina. Best thing is to take your knives out and handle them, then oil/wipe them once in a while. Even better, strap them on and take them out of the house and use them.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by kenb »

eveled wrote:Biggest problems I've had, have been with sheaths my dad treated with mink oil. I started to wipe my knives with clp, and never have a problem since. I store them in the sheaths. I don't polish my brass, I like the patina. Best thing is to take your knives out and handle them, then oil/wipe them once in a while. Even better, strap them on and take them out of the house and use them.
I take them out and wipe them as much as possible, but I have at least a thousand. So the best I can do is routine maintenance. Sometimes I don't get to a few boxes for a year or two. I don't think I'll be strapping on that Silver Stag Pacific Coast Bowie and getting out to use it anytime soon. It's huge. I can deal with patina, but when the patina starts pitting guards and bolsters I need to do something. I'm going to put ren wax on them to try and keep the brass airtight. And then I have all the guns to clean and oil, but we won't get into that now. Lol

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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by edge213 »

Verdigris and patina are not the same thing. Patina is ok. Verdigris is not. If left on brass it will pit the brass.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by KnifeSlinger#81 »

Just to be safe I would put wax on the brass after cleaning it.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by knife7knut »

kenb wrote: I don't think I'll be strapping on that Silver Stag Pacific Coast Bowie and getting out to use it anytime soon. It's huge.
Is it anything like this Silver Stag? I had never heard the name until I came across this one a friend of mine had. He traded it for something and then I wound up with it.Nicely made knife.





















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kenb
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by kenb »

Silver Stag Pacific Bowie
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by tallguy606 »

I wrap my brass bolstered folding knives like Buck 110s in a piece of plastic from a Walmart bag, then put them back in the leather pouch. Keeps the green off them for the most part, but not always.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by knife7knut »

kenb wrote:Silver Stag Pacific Bowie



Ken
Nice one Ken! Thanks for posting it.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by boykinlp »

knife7knut wrote:Seriously though the problem of verdigris is not only with the brass guards and bolsters it is more of a problem with the brass rivets and snaps that adorn the sheaths.These can be a real problem.

To clean rivets and snaps I use a little Mother's Mag Wheel Polish on a rag and grip the head of the rivet between my thumbnail and middle fingernail(thankfully they are long enough to do so)and rotate them several times. Usually cleans out all of the verdigris and then I repeat the process with a bare cloth.
I am going to tell you what I have done for years on gun holsters. It seems to keep the verdigris at bay pretty well. I first clean it off the best way you know how. knife7knut's way should work OK, but I also employ toothpicks and dental picks to remove some of it. Then I force as much Renaissance Wax as I can around and behind the rivets and snaps trying to get it between the leather and metal. I then use a hairdryer to melt it. It will hopefully run in places where you can't get to. ThiIs has worked very well for me.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by mrwatch »

I just found one of mine with it. used Mothers Mag. They say the Tanic Acid used to treat leather is the cause. Much now may be vegetable oil treated. You may call this sinful but they use a gold tinted clear lacquer spray to protect horns and other brass musical instruments. Can be removed. The other day I found a Pakistan folder new in the box hidden for years. What ever is that like a dried plastic coating they put on the blade before wrapping and shipping? ::uc:: Maybe gasoline and a match? ::hmm::
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by Cletus Awreetus »

tallguy606 wrote:I wrap my brass bolstered folding knives like Buck 110s in a piece of plastic from a Walmart bag, then put them back in the leather pouch. Keeps the green off them for the most part, but not always.
I've got 2 Buck 110s undergoing a highly intellectual type scientific experiment as we speak. one treated with Ren Wax, one without. Both stored in their respective, identical sheaths. I figure I'll check on them around Thanksgiving and see where I'm at.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by Dinadan »

I guess I am in the minority, but I like brass bolsters. I like brass tools or tools with brass mounting as well. It does tarnish, but I have not seen brass actually corrode. I am not saying that it does not corrode, but I have some old brass that has seen a lot of use and exposure to things, and it is tarnished, not corroded. Heck, when a brass cannon is pulled from the sea after a few centuries, all it needs is a good cleaning.

But I can see where a knife with tarnished bolsters would not look that great in a display with some polished nickel silver knives around it. The same could be said about real silver, for that matter - after a year or two of sitting in a drawer my silver stuff looks pretty tarnished. The thing about silver and brass is that if you use it looks good because the use keeps it polished, so I guess it is better for user knives than for display knives. I do not see where it really matters if a knife tucked away in storage is tarnished.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by Sharpnshinyknives »

Cletus Awreetus wrote:
tallguy606 wrote:I wrap my brass bolstered folding knives like Buck 110s in a piece of plastic from a Walmart bag, then put them back in the leather pouch. Keeps the green off them for the most part, but not always.
I've got 2 Buck 110s undergoing a highly intellectual type scientific experiment as we speak. one treated with Ren Wax, one without. Both stored in their respective, identical sheaths. I figure I'll check on them around Thanksgiving and see where I'm at.
Why oh why would you store a knife in a sheath? Go back and read the earlier posts, NEVER STORE A KNIFE IN A SHEATH. ::dang:: Or are you just messing with us OCD type people? Cause if you are......
Seriously though, find a better way to keep the sheath w/ the proper knife. Storing it in the sheath is going to damage the knife.

I agree that brass looks great on a knife when it’s been cleaned up. It probably would be better for use than display. After I bought that collection where knives had been stored in sheaths for decades, I can tell you w/out a doubt that the sheath will damage the knife. Not just brass but nickle silver as well. The previous owner stored a Case Sidewinder in it’s sheath since the 80’s. It took some major work to get the pits and green stains off those bolsters. If I hadn’t known how to do it, it would have devalued that knife by a hundred dollars or more. Plus the leather sheath had green stains that ran all down from the brass button and that would not clean off the leather.
Every Parker, Buck, Case and other knives that had brass bolsters required major work. The problem w/ brass in a collection is that few of us take the time to go in and clean and re-oil the knives we have as often as they need to be. Once you get hundreds of knives in your collection it’s a major undertaking. The person who started this said that he has over 1000 knives. That’s the problem. You can spend a lot of time cleaning brass to keep it looking good. For me, it’s not worth it. And I am okay w/ limiting my choices to only nickle silver bolsters. There are plenty of knives w/ nickle silver bolsters to collect.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by kenb »

Dinadan wrote:I guess I am in the minority, but I like brass bolsters. I like brass tools or tools with brass mounting as well. It does tarnish, but I have not seen brass actually corrode. I am not saying that it does not corrode, but I have some old brass that has seen a lot of use and exposure to things, and it is tarnished, not corroded. Heck, when a brass cannon is pulled from the sea after a few centuries, all it needs is a good cleaning.

But I can see where a knife with tarnished bolsters would not look that great in a display with some polished nickel silver knives around it. The same could be said about real silver, for that matter - after a year or two of sitting in a drawer my silver stuff looks pretty tarnished. The thing about silver and brass is that if you use it looks good because the use keeps it polished, so I guess it is better for user knives than for display knives. I do not see where it really matters if a knife tucked away in storage is tarnished.
Mel, I'm not talking about tarnish here. I'm talking about the brass actually pitting and degrading. If. You dont clean off that heavy green gunk it starts to eat into the brass. If you get to it early it will clean up. Wait a little too long and it will stain the brass. Wait too too long and it will pit the brass. Just go online and look at some vintage Shrade LB7's or Buck 110's for sale and you're bound to see it. If you're lucky you can buff it out, but most of the time it's a lost cause.

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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by kenb »

Here's a perfect example. I acquired this knife in this condition many years ago.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by Sharpnshinyknives »

Ken, I had knives that looked exactly like that in that first collection I bought. That staining will not come out. You are absolutely correct about that.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by Dinadan »

kenb wrote:Here's a perfect example. I acquired this knife in this condition many years ago.
Ken
Ken - I am not saying that you are wrong. Just that I have not experienced pitting that I was aware of.

There are different formulas for brass, and I expect that some might corrode worse than others. Here are a couple of photos of a Jet-Aer that I bought in 1977. It has been stored in its sheath since about 1980. I dropped it on concrete and pavement back when I used it, so there are plenty of dings, but when I cleaned the tarnish off one of the bolsters I do not see anything that I think is pitting. It is hard to say what is what, for me at least, and I cannot tell with your knife either.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by knife7knut »

Dinadan wrote: It does tarnish, but I have not seen brass actually corrode. .
If you have never seen an outgassed celluloid handled knife that has had the liners eaten completely away by nitric acid fumes you haven't lived! :mrgreen:
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by Sharpnshinyknives »

knife7knut wrote:
Dinadan wrote: It does tarnish, but I have not seen brass actually corrode. .
If you have never seen an outgassed celluloid handled knife that has had the liners eaten completely away by nitric acid fumes you haven't lived! :mrgreen:
Wow, I haven’t seen that. I knew celluloid was unstable but holy cow. Celluloid is also highly flammable.
Is there anything to do to prevent that out gassing?
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by Dinadan »

knife7knut wrote:
Dinadan wrote: It does tarnish, but I have not seen brass actually corrode. .
If you have never seen an outgassed celluloid handled knife that has had the liners eaten completely away by nitric acid fumes you haven't lived! :mrgreen:
You know, I had forgotten about that outgassing stuff. Good point - I guess I just never ran into a serious case of it.
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Re: Brass corrosion

Post by Mumbleypeg »

Sharpnshinyknives wrote: Is there anything to do to prevent that out gassing?
Mark
No. (Well, I guess actually there is - remove the celluloid and re-handle before it starts to outgass! ::facepalm:: )

Do a search here for celluloid. Lots of discussion and information available, but no "cure".

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