Civil War Roundtable

Sauconian · Post by **Sauconian** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:43 pm

For those who may have an interest in such things, I was out early this morning to prepare the old schoolhouse for a group of about 45 high school students, and their teachers.

They divided into smaller groups, and while one of our historical society members explained what school was like for the children of the mostly German farmers of our district, Mary Todd Lincoln, and a soldier from South Carolina, addressed others outdoors.

Our Southern soldier explained the equipment and arms he may have used, and also the many non-combatant uses of his bayonet. Mary Todd interpreted the day after Abe's assasination.

Although the students didn't have many questions during the formal presentation, it was heartening to see how many returned after their lunch. Of special interest to them was the great disadvantage under which the South fought, and the disparity of the impact of the war between the women of the North, and those of the South.

In addition, a young lady from Moravian College provided background music with her violin, and a young man who filmed here previously for PBS, volunteered his services.

It's very satisfying that I may, in a minor way, contribute to something which in a book, the kids have little interest.

Fran

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:13 pm

cool, fran!

Forensic Jim · Post by **Forensic Jim** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:16 pm

Very nice to provide that for the children. Henry Ford Village here in Michigan has some of the best reenactments ever. Lately I have been buying reproductions of civil war swords and knives. After seeing what can be made to look old I would never consider buying anything unless it was authenticated by some expert. My last show I had several out on my table and people would ask if they could look at them closer and I would let them and then tell them that they were reproductions. They were not for sale just for display and I would not even think of trying to pass them off as authentic.

Sauconian · Post by **Sauconian** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:24 pm

Forensic Jim Said :

"Lately I have been buying reproductions of civil war swords and knives. After seeing what can be made to look old I would never consider buying anything unless it was authenticated by some expert."

Jim,

You might do your fellow knifers a service by posting photos of some of those repros, especially the smaller pieces. I'd sure like to see them, because sooner or later a less honest person than you will try passing them off as original. It helps to know what's available for the cheats to work with.

Fran

Forensic Jim · Post by **Forensic Jim** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:58 pm

Fran, I will be sure to do that. I just need to make time and take some photos and post them.

Forensic Jim · Post by **Forensic Jim** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:13 am

Here is the reproduction short sword and one of the knives that I bought recently. The prices on these have actually been going up and the last knife that was sold went for $190.00.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:26 am

I know some guys that make these short sword/long knives and they have a lot of fun doing it. Tomahawks have been in demand also. I have a couple tomahawk heads, a couple tomahawks with curly maple (tiger Curl) is on my list.

mumblypeg · Post by **mumblypeg** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:37 am

Wow Jim, those are repros?

I can see how someone could pass them off as 'genuine'.

Forensic Jim · Post by **Forensic Jim** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:34 am

Here's a better picture using a flash of part of the blade. This sword repro was for the 107th Colored Troop.

Sauconian · Post by **Sauconian** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:29 am

Jim,

Thanks for the photos. Those look absolutely scary !

Logic should suggest that the armies of both North & South had a difficult enough time procuring supplies that fancy blades would be doubtful, especially for colored troops, but that worn, rusty one might be tempting.

You would hope that anyone with the skill to make pieces like this would have the integrity to mark them for what they are. Dabbling in other antiques, I've seen the market for various collectables totally destroyed with the arrival of repros, fakes, and European look-a-likes. They ruin the value of legitimate collections, and may eventually cloud history.

Well done repros may be admired for the skill of the maker, but are a serious threat to any collector !

Fran

sunburst · Post by **sunburst** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:33 am

I wanted to say thanks for posting on this fine topic, very informative and helpful...

Sunburst

gmusic · Post by **gmusic** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:04 pm

I have friends that are in the antique business. Many times they will buy a piece that is missing a bolt or screw, so they go out to the shed to find a close match and “age” it.

They have a chemical they brush onto the item, and overnight it looks like it's a hundred years old! I never asked what it was.

Gary

Forensic Jim · Post by **Forensic Jim** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:58 pm

Fran, While I'm certain that the majority of the 107th Colored Troops did not have swords, surely the officers did. The 107th USCT were the band and they saw their share of battle. There were 7 Medal of Honors awarded to members of the U.S. Colored Troops. The following are photos of the 107th USCT Band, the encampment of the Tennessee Colored Battery and a recruitment poster.

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:43 pm

hey jim, cool weapons and historical pics. were'nt most officers white, even for the black troops?

Forensic Jim · Post by **Forensic Jim** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:27 pm

Johnnie, From what I've read the commanding officers were white and probably the non-commisioned officers as well.

Sauconian · Post by **Sauconian** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:51 pm

Cool stuff Jim.

You must have more dusting to do than me !

Gary said :
They have a chemical they brush onto the item, and overnight it looks like it's a hundred years old! I never asked what it was.

I've used muriatic acid on an old blade that I wanted just to display at the school house. It was coarsely ground, so I sanded it, brushed on the acid, and after about an hour neutalized it with baking soda and water, then steel wooled. Instant patina !

I've been told mustard will do the job too, but I can't think of any reason why, except for the vinegar. Another acid, that I would expect to take a lot more time, but I've never tried it.

Fran

Gunsmoke47 · Post by **Gunsmoke47** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:43 pm

Hey Johnny F. and Jim, I am an Indian Wars buff more so than Civil War (although I find that fasinating history as well) but the 1st black officer to ever "graduate" from West Point was Lt. Henry Flipper. This was late 1870's. As for Civil War black officers.... I don't know for sure. I find it HIGHLY unlikely but toward the end on either side a private could become a general in a month or two if he lived long enough! He was quite a character (Lt. Flipper) and one hell of a man to endure what he had to so soon after the Civil War. Smoke
Here is a cool link.
http://www.mobeetie.com/pages/flipper.htm

Gunsmoke47 · Post by **Gunsmoke47** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:07 pm

Fran, I forgot to thank you for this thread. Although I bumped it up about 10 or 15 years, both times in military history are unique to warfare in our own Great Nation. I have uncovered Many artifacts from the very Fort where Lt. Flipper was stationed. I wonder every time I hold one what the history of it was. Who dropped it? How did it come to rest there some 130 years ago? I work with area archeologists, and I am vice chairman of our museum. ( Didn't want anybody to think I was a pot hunter out to make a fortune on the Bay with my finds!) LOL!

If anyone would like to see some pics, I would be happy to post them, or send them via email. I know this is a knife forum and I only have found a few knives there!

Smoke

Forensic Jim · Post by **Forensic Jim** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:35 pm

Smoke, Post any pics you have of any artifacts. I'd certainly like to see them.

Sauconian · Post by **Sauconian** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:41 pm

Smoke, You can send me photos of any of your finds !

I still get the same feelings of wonder with any old artifact I hold. It started about 40 years ago, surface collecting Native American stuff. One of my collecting buddies became N.J.'s first archaeologist for the D.O.T., and in charge of a 4 story lab.

I'm on the board, and Chairman of Acquisitions for the old 1 room schoolhouse, and have decorated the interior. Great fun. I get to go shopping, but don't have to keep it all at home !

I haven't be able to recruit any professional help from Lehigh, Kutztown, or Drexel, so I guess I'll have to dig up the old privys myself.

Fran

Forensic Jim · Post by **Forensic Jim** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:13 pm

Here's some pics of "Big Betty", a repro Boyle & Gamble bowie knife. EBay just sold one that was supposed to be authentic even though the auctioneer stated in the listing that he was not responsible for the items authenticity. I thought mine looked a lot more authentic than the one that sold for $900.00. The item number is, 280154133336.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:50 pm

I would love to see any artifacts from the Indian Wars as Anthropology, especially Native American Cultures, Oral Traditions, (tribal or group history through story telling), Native American Arts ( you fellas who know me don't fall off your chairs ) were classes I used to as electives to fullfill college requirements for 2 degrees (an AS and an AA totaling 3.97 GPA with National and International Scolastic Achievement Awards). OK, you can pick yourselves off the floor now, back to the chairs.

I do find the Cival War a secondary interest (can they rename it, what is so civil about war, yeah I know) and would like to see artifacts from the Cival War. My Great-Grandfather (my dad's, mother's father) was on the side of the South by default as he lived in Arkansas. The way it worked in the South is you pretty much joined in front of a firing squad. YES, you live, NO and you're 6 ft under.

Sign me up, I would love to see any artifacts from the Indian Wars or Civil War.

Gunsmoke47 · Post by **Gunsmoke47** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:30 am

OK guys and gals, here are a couple or three for starters. First one ranks right up there with my most prized discovery. A V.M.I. (Virginia Military Institute) cartridge box plate. I dug this 6 " down at an encampment that was the fore runner to Fort Elliott. Yes , I know , it is shiney...

In my eager stupidity... I cleaned it. I assure you however, it is as authentic as the day is long!

The second is a Riflemans button that dates between 1816 and 1821. Funny thing is it was found at a known encampment that was established in 1852. Maybe Army surplus

I don't know. The third is an Anson Mills cartridge belt buckle and an officers Eagle buckle. Notice the silver wreath on the officers eagle buckle is gone. This was a common occurance. Hope you enjoy. I have many more if you care to see them. Oh yeah, my avitar.... that was found at an 1874 Cheyanne Indian camp where Lt. Farnsworth battle originated Nov. 6th 1874.

Forensic Jim · Post by **Forensic Jim** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:26 am

Smoke, Those are too cool!

Must have been exciting to find atifacts like that!

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:47 am

Excellent thread guys

Very interesting and educational. Thanks

s-k

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