Case prototype question

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ludwig26
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Case prototype question

Postby ludwig26 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:59 pm

I have a chance to buy this 1988 Case West
Virginia Coal miner marked prototype.
It is not marked inside that I can see.
I know nothing about prototypes and can’t find much about them. Anybody have an opinion?
Thanks Kerry
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Mumbleypeg
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Re: Case prototype question

Postby Mumbleypeg » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:21 pm

Not sure what kind of opinions you want but FWIW here's mine. To get a premium price for a commemorative knife you'll probably need to find someone associated with the event or group being commemorated. Otherwise it's just another knife.

And some collectors will pay a premium price for a knife marked "Prototype". I've never understood why. After they made the prototype they probably made a hundred or more just like it. What's special about the prototype? ::shrug::

JMO

Ken
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ludwig26
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Re: Case prototype question

Postby ludwig26 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:43 pm

Mumbleypeg wrote:Not sure what kind of opinions you want but FWIW here's mine. To get a premium price for a commemorative knife you'll probably need to find someone associated with the event or group being commemorated. Otherwise it's just another knife.

And some collectors will pay a premium price for a knife marked "Prototype". I've never understood why. After they made the prototype they probably made a hundred or more just like it. What's special about the prototype? ::shrug::

JMO

Ken
Thanks Mumbleypeg
I don’t collect commemoratives or Prototypes.
Was more or less seeing if anyone could vouch
For the way it’s marked prototype. I thought Case engraved them down in the liners.

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Re: Case prototype question

Postby TwoFlowersLuggage » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:01 am

IMHO, knives marked "prototype" are not worth anything more than the underlying pattern and materials of that brand of knife. It's pure marketing, used to make you believe the knife is more valuable because it implies rarity. However, these are not like an engineering prototype for an entirely new design. Everyone that orders a SFO or commemorative also gets at least one marked "prototype". Therefore, is it really more valuable?

If there really was a screw-up in the prototype, it would never have been sent to the customer.
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Re: Case prototype question

Postby Gunsil » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:18 am

The "prototype" knives are just stupid hype largely begun by the scammer Jim Parker when he bought Case. Knife companies have no reason to make a prototype, the old companies never did. Knives are drawn by a mechanical engineer who is experienced and the dies for the handles and the dies for the blades are made from the drawings and all parts fit as designed. There is no reason to make a real prototype since proper mechanical drawings will show exactly what a knife pattern will look like when finished and all parts will fit properly when stamped out. This false "prototype" business has spread and is all a ridiculous way to sell knives to gullible people who think they are getting a special one of a kind knife when as stated above there are usually many made with the same mark. Same goes for "first production run" and similar inane marketing ploys.

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Mumbleypeg
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Re: Case prototype question

Postby Mumbleypeg » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:13 am

ludwig26 wrote: Thanks Mumbleypeg
I don’t collect commemoratives or Prototypes.
Was more or less seeing if anyone could vouch
For the way it’s marked prototype. I thought Case engraved them down in the liners.


Sorry, I can't help you with that question. Someone that knows may be along and answer.

Ken
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Re: Case prototype question

Postby peanut740 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:35 am

Ditto what Gunsil said.
Roger

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Re: Case prototype question

Postby ludwig26 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:44 am

Thanks guys I get the picture.

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Re: Case prototype question

Postby XxTestedxX » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:57 am

Gemmick

Maybe if it’s a pattern that was never made, and was well documented

Anyone with a etch machine or engraver can
Duplicate this.

I’ve seen more classics etched or engraved, sample, proto, prototype or other things than I see without nowadays

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Re: Case prototype question

Postby Mumbleypeg » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:12 am

There is a legitimate reason to make prototypes, and it's for taking pictures to be used in advertising and other marketing promotions. To meet publishing deadlines, advertising copy and catalogs typically must be planned and produced several months in advance of the actual product introduction. If sales wants good pictures of the product for ad copy to coincide with product introduction, a prototype to use for photography is necessary. For example the most recent issue of the Case Collector magazine I received last week has color photos of knives that won't be manufactured and shipped until October or later this year. The magazine copy was probably submitted to the publisher several weeks ago, so prototypes of some knives were likely made 9 months to a year before they will be in production.

Some of those prototypes were no doubt on display at SHOT for preview by writers and editors of magazines. I've read some of the reviews of knives "to be released later this year" that were shown to and handled by the writers.

Manufacturers have a prototype shop for that reason if no other, and Case has one. That someone (Jim Parker has been mentioned) at Case saw value in promoting these as marketing hype is fact. I don't know why there would be a prototype commemorative of a knife already in production, like the OP knife. ::hmm:: Maybe the customer requested a sample.

Once production is available I personally see no reason a prototype should be more valuable.

Ken
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.

"Man has nothing that the animals have not at least a vestige of, the animals have nothing that the man does not in some degree share."
- Ernest Thompson Seton
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Re: Case prototype question

Postby TwoFlowersLuggage » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:50 am

Prototypes would also be created for new patterns where production machine settings have not been previously documented. The CAD drawings won't tell the machine operator that a nudge on the vernier scale is needed to get it lined-up just right at station #5, but not at station #6. It also won't tell them that they can shave 10 seconds off the assembly time by having the 7th operation done at station #3 instead of station #4. In most manufacturing processes, the engineers and the senior operators typically walk through the steps of a new process and make sure the work instructions are correct before you turn it over to the rank & file production line operators. There are engineers that are working on product design, and there are also engineers working on tooling and manufacturability. Well, that's how we do it - I have no idea what Case does...

Edit: I still don't think the knives we see for sale with blades etched with "prototype" are "real" prototypes like I describe here.
"The Luggage had a straightforward way of dealing with things between it and its intended destination: it ignored them." -Terry Pratchett

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Re: Case prototype question

Postby ken98k » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:54 am

Nice looking knife. ::tu::
I am the NRA.

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Re: Case prototype question

Postby Railsplitter » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:24 pm

[/quote] Was more or less seeing if anyone could vouch
For the way it’s marked prototype. I thought Case engraved them down in the liners.
[/quote]

I don't know anything about Case Prototype knives other than I've never seen one before. Or maybe I have and just didn't see the Prototype engraving inside the liners.

If that is in fact where Case places the Prototype stamp, it seems like a strange thing to do for a marketing strategy. Few people would see it unless they knew where to look.

I suggest sending an email with pictures to Case at info@wrcase.com

Or just use this Contact page:
http://www.wrcase.com/support/contact/

There are a couple of really nice ladies there that are very helpful in answering these types of questions in great detail.
Rick T.

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Re: Case prototype question

Postby peanut740 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:29 pm

True Case prototypes on marked on the liners inside the blade well.I won one in a drawing at the Case celebration in Bradford several years ago.They gave away several and all were marked that way,and were from different years of manufacture.
Roger

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Re: Case prototype question

Postby ludwig26 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:33 pm

Thanks Peanut that’s what I was looking for.
kerry


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