need info on an E.C. simmons and german knife please

[timgreene48]

I did some trading with a buddy of mine yesterday, and picked up two interesting knives. I do not have Goins' book on markings, so I was hoping someone could give me info on these two knives. The first is an E.C. simmons.Seems to be a very well made knife, but the tang does not say "keen cutter", only E.C. simmons St Louis Mo. I would like to know it's approx. age, a pattern no., if possible, and it's approx. value. The second, is a german knife. Seems to be well made, nice bone, and an unusual "wharncliff" style blade. The front tang is marked only "Gobernador", and the back tang says "soligen'. again, I would like to know it's age, and an approx., value. Any help would be much appreciated, Thanks, Tim Note: both knives are in excellent cond, and have good snap.

[cato]

The GOBERNATOR is a krusius brothers , not sure on age thinking the
50s , but its hard to tell on them because Parker bought the old plant
and stock and some was put together in the 80's i think,

The SIMMONS could not get a good look at it, but some of those were
done as remakes in the 80's also

The GOBERNATER I HAVE SEEN SELL ON BAY BETWEEN 45 TO 75 $

HOPE THIS HELPS

CATO
NOTE; THE BONE ON SIMMONS SEEMS TO BE OLD TYPE , SO IT COULD BE CORRECT
MAY PRE 20'S BUT IT ALSO SEEMS VERY NICE SHAPE, TO BE THAT OLD
NEED BETTER PICS OF IT

[timgreene48]

Thanks cato, it's dull and dreary here today, and I am not the greatest at picture taking. The knives produced in the 80's, would they have only E.C. simmons St, Louis Mo. stamped on the tang? I don't see any thing on the reverse tang, and if there were a blade etch, it is not visible now. Thanks for the input.

[Unk]

E.C. Simmons had the "Keen Kutter" brand, and they are marked as such - this was considered their premium line of knives. They also had the "Simmons" brand, which was one of their lower priced line.

Simmons had quite a few brands over the years - Chip-a-way, Hornet, A.W. Bradshaw etc. before they sold out to Shapleigh around 1940.

[knives-are-quiet]

SIMMONS BRAND

[timgreene48]

Thank you fellas for the input. I have been doing some research of my own, although I can find very little. But this is what I found in" official price guide to collector knives" fifteenth ed. on page 322. "knives marked E.C. simmons on the tang, and keen kutter "elsewhere" on the knife are the very earliest examples" "After 1940, references to E.C. simmons were dropped". It is possible that my knife once had a blade etch of the keen kutter logo, but all traces of that are gone. I can find no evidence of any stamping or marking on the backside of the tang. Also, I once had a Frost keen kutter, and the keystone logo has "usa"at the top. I do not believe that this knife is from the '80s, although I could be wrong. It is a possibility that this knife could be one of the "cheaper" brands, although Ido not consider myself an expert, My little experience tells me that this knife is well made, and made with quality materials. To me, investigating these old knives is a lot of fun, so please keep posting your assessments and your thoughts. I certainally appreciate it. Tim

[Unk]

Hi Tim,

There wasn't a lot of difference in the premium knives and their other brands that I can see. I have upwards of 35 or 40 E.C. Simmons Keen Kutters, and a handful just branded as "Simmons". I can't tell any difference in the quality. I think it was more for marketing. Some of their knives were made in the old Walden factory (which they purchased), and later some were made by Winchester. At one point around 1910 or so they manufactured more pocket knives than anyone in the world.

A good book for E.C. Simmons research is "Keen Kutter Pocket Knives" by Alvin Sellens.

[timgreene48]

Thanks Unk!

[stockman]

Tim it is old, probably was blade etched Keen Kutter. Some were stamped on a bloster. The dog leg
jack has Keen Kutter etch although you probably can't see it in picture. So it is before the the usually
seen KK tang style stamp. My pic's should enlarge to read stamps. 1900-1910??

Harold



Sorry about the way my lines are broken up. It has happened before. Why??

[timgreene48]

Stockman, thank you! My tang stamping is the same as yours. As I have said, I really had a feeling that this knife was old, but I wouldn't have guessed that old. Is there any chance you could estimate a value? It would be much appreciated. Again, thanks

[stockman]

Tim, I could be off some on age, but I don't think much. This stamp was talked about sometime ago LT
was on the discussion. The KK stamp, I think they call it the Bar and wedge was talked about and your
stamp pre dates it. I always thought my first pictured knife was late 1800's to early 1900's. You might search
for that earlier thread. Value I gave $125 each for mine if my memory is correct.

Harold

[timgreene48]

That's awesome! thank you