Camco or I/S? Another whodunnit!

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:00 pm

My favorite question!! Who made these knives?? I sometimes wonder if we'll ever know all of them for sure; I doubt it!
Anyways, here goes: these two both have imitation handles, with different textures. They sort of look like Camillus knives to me, although the congress is stamped Schrade Walden, and the jack, Keen Kutter! In light of recent discussions of who made what, I'm as confused as ever. Can anyone part the clouds for me??

knifeaholic · Post by **knifeaholic** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:44 pm

Top Camillus

Bottom Schrade.

At least based on the tooling, handle materials, and general appearance.

It is always possible that Camillus could have made knives for Schrade using tooling and handle material (and of course tang stamps) supplied by Schrade. Then it would be impossible to tell from appearance.

Otherwise I just go by the fact that I have looked at zillions of knives over 30 plus years and also old catalogs so I can identify many (certainly not all) knife manufacturers by variations in the tooling and handle materials. Much easier to do this with confidence for knives made post-WWII (as these two are) since there were way fewer manufacturers and patterns offered after WWII.

Phil Gibbs · Post by **Phil Gibbs** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:32 am

I agree, Top Camillus, bottom Schrade.
I believe we had the Keen Kutter shield tooling for it at Camillus.

The bottom is certainly Schrade parts, probably not assembled at Camillus, but as stated by Knifeaholic, we frequently did assembly work for Schrade. During my tenure at Camillus (since 1979) I only ever recall seeing Old Timer & Uncle Henry & a few other Schrade items for us to assemble.

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:44 am

If it is an earlier Keen Kutter is likely was likely made by Walden.
Attached is a copy of a page from a 1924 Keen Kutter catalog.

It is possible that are both made by (Schrade) Walden. At least based on the info I have.

Is there a model number on the KK? If so let me know & I will see if I can find it in the catalog.

Dale

knifeaholic · Post by **knifeaholic** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:46 am

Phil Gibbs wrote:I agree, Top Camillus, bottom Schrade.
I believe we had the Keen Kutter shield tooling for it at Camillus.

The bottom is certainly Schrade parts, probably not assembled at Camillus, but as stated by Knifeaholic, we frequently did assembly work for Schrade. During my tenure at Camillus (since 1979) I only ever recall seeing Old Timer & Uncle Henry & a few other Schrade items for us to assemble.

Phil,

Thanks and that is very interesting - Did Camillus use the "Swinden rivet" construction that Schrade used when Camillus assembled the OT's? I aske because It seems like I have seen a few unfinished OT's that had "conventional" riveted bolster construction.

knifeaholic · Post by **knifeaholic** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:47 am

Dale;

Those are both later knives, post-WWII era.

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:47 am

I appreciate all the comments everyone, thank you!!
There is a number on the back of the Keen Kutter's main tang. It is 787.

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:13 am

knifeaholic wrote:Dale;

Those are both later knives, post-WWII era.

You are right. I hadn't looked through that catalog thoroughly. I thought maybe the shield on the Keen Kutter was a newer style. However, after going through the 1924 catalog I found 3 knives that that type of Keen Kutter shield; # K6559, #K6353, & #K26559. All three were Scout Knives.

Does anyone know when that shield Keen Kutter shield (like the one on Upnorth's knife) became the predominate shield for Keen Kutters?

The 1924 catalog shows a variety of shields in the pic below.

Thanks,
Dale

Phil Gibbs · Post by **Phil Gibbs** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:57 pm

knifeaholic wrote:
Phil Gibbs wrote:I agree, Top Camillus, bottom Schrade.
I believe we had the Keen Kutter shield tooling for it at Camillus.

The bottom is certainly Schrade parts, probably not assembled at Camillus, but as stated by Knifeaholic, we frequently did assembly work for Schrade. During my tenure at Camillus (since 1979) I only ever recall seeing Old Timer & Uncle Henry & a few other Schrade items for us to assemble.
Phil,

Thanks and that is very interesting - Did Camillus use the "Swinden rivet" construction that Schrade used when Camillus assembled the OT's? I aske because It seems like I have seen a few unfinished OT's that had "conventional" riveted bolster construction.

Camillus never used "Swindon Construction".
If you see that type of knife, it was definately made by ISC.

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:19 pm

Thanks for that info Phil.

Dale