Interested in trying to scrimshaw??

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:59 am

I was just looking around on the internet at some schrimshaw sites. I found this one to be a pretty good how to... type. The artist uses ivory, but I think you could try it with a less expensive medium.

http://www.scrimart.u.se/HowTo_Scrimshaw/HowToScrim.htm

If I ever get some spare time, I'd like to give it a try. Anyone else ever consider trying?

Bryan

RealMontanan · Post by **RealMontanan** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:38 pm

Brian,

I've gone so far as to buy some Mammoth Ivory, a stereo microscope, and a little pile of pins w/ holders. I also bought an awesome DVD from a Scrimshander by the name of Bob Hergert. It's called, "SCRIMSHAW: Tools, Tips, and Techniques" I'm almost positive you can check out his work and order your own DVD at his website.... http://www.scrimshander.com. If that isn't it I will dig out my DVD box and look.
Bob Hergert takes you step by step through preparing the ivory, planning your design, and sits down and shows exactly how and what to do and use to accomplish your scrimshaw ideas. I'll admit I haven't put pin to Ivory as of yet, but I would be lost without Bob's expert guidance! HINT: For a cheap medium to practice on, I was told to use those white plastic spoons! Supposed to feel about the same as IVORY.... Good Luck! I am going to go check out the site you recommended right now! Later......

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:50 pm

Hello RealMontanan,

Welcome to the forums! I'm anxious to hear what your plans are with this... Are you going to scrimshaw anything soon? I think I am going to get some supplies and try it out. I found some old ivory piano keys on eBay that I plan to practice on. I checked out the DVD that you recomended. It looks prety good, but I'm not motivated enough to spend much $ yet. Depending on how it turns out, I may or may not post a picture here.

Bryan

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:21 pm

OK Bryan,
Now you've got me all "Keyed Up" with anticipation of your work!!!

Here is an inexpensive book I've heard was pretty good for those just starting out......
http://www.knifeworld.com/knifeworld/scrimshaw.html

Wish I had the patience and skills to do something like this. It's not for those of us who shake a bit.

It is very cool, however. Good luck to you guys, and keep us "Posted"....

Bill

RealMontanan · Post by **RealMontanan** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:09 pm

Bill, Bryan..... and others.....

I bought that book!
In fact, it was the first thing I did buy that had anything to do with scrimshaw.

And, God Bless Ol' Blackie (the deceased author) but I must hasten to say you get what you pay for,... and I was sorely disappointed!

Actually verging on a stronger words than ticked off!

The claims made to sell the book are far more interesting than the actual information offered in the sparse few pages it contains.... can't be but 3/16" thick!
If you had never heard the word scrimshaw before, and had no idea what it was, this would serve as the most simple of introductions!
Please, forgive my RANT,.....but when the book came, and I sat down with some minor expectations I admit, it didn't take five minutes to feel taken! And, you can read the thing twice in less than 15 minutes !

I'm sorry but it's a joke in my mind!

Why after paying for shipping and handling + book price.... it sucked! I can only offer my opinion and that is this:
If I where you, and I really wanted to know about and how to do scrimshaw, I'd put that same amount away in a piggy bank with the name Bob Hergert's DVD on it and start saving up! And guaranteed, you will learn every A to Z, and 1,2,3....of the intricacies and nuances of selection, preparation, what tools are needed and the fine points of useing and maintaining them, the tricks and tips of execution, finishing, and the trade secrets as Bob understands them. Bob does not HOLD BACK like some guys that make DVD's will..

NO "presto" "change-o"- first in the camera's eye while telling you what is going to happen, and then "Where did he go?" and back in the front of the camera's eye- and it's done! But you NEVER DID SEE HOW TO DO IT! I have some knife making DVD's where that exact thing occurs too often!

NOT WITH BOB'S, ...... you WILL see it all and he is good at narration to. He is relaxed and never rushed or unsure... you can tell he knows his craft to the bone! I struggled to get the 'mindset' to spend the cash for the DVD, but I really realized after looking at and reading everything else I could find online, I really didn't now what STEP ONE reallywas let alone step two and then what ?

Well, this DVD answered more questions than I'd a thought of if I'd have worked in scrimshaw for 5 or 10 years. Bob has been doing it for almost 30 years! and you can tell that when you watch him and listen to what he is telling you as he shows you step by step what to do and how to do it....

Not only that, but he includes his home phone and is ever so glad to answer any more questions you may dream up no matter how silly.... I know that because I did it on more than one occasion while getting my tools gathered up! A true gentleman.

I'll ask again in case anyone missed it...... please forgive my RANT!
But I tried doing it on the cheap for so long, that it was basically out of last chance desperation that I sprang for the dough and bought Bob's DVD. If only I had bought it first... ( I hate to say it, but I have more that the one book by "Blackie" about scrimshaw).... Anyway, thank goodness I did buy it because now, I have every confidence in the world I can accomplish decent to good scrimshaw first time out and WILL show you my first work no MATTER how it comes out here shortly!
I think I drank too much coffee this morning! Yikes! :8^)

Colin Paterson... a.k.a. -RealMontanan

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:53 pm

Hey, thanks for posting from a real experience with the book. Guess you can't believe everything you hear/read......

But, glad you saved others from wasting their money.

If that Blackie Collins is the same as Walter "Blackie" Collins of knife design legend, then it's a double shame. I thought he was still alive and designing knives....so maybe it's a different person.

No matter. Thanks for the rant.....errrr, history.

Bill

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:09 pm

Alright, I've decided to jump in with both feet...

Colin, you must be a salesman or something... I am going to order a DVD here directly.

Bill, Don't expect much out of me. I'll post a picture of my first attempt, but I'm no great artist, and I'm sure it will take me forever.

Bryan

RealMontanan · Post by **RealMontanan** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:47 am

Well OPEN mouth- insert foot!

I just did a Google search and I bet that it is the same living legend 'BLACKIE' after all.......

Sheesh! And I said he was deceased!

I apologize, and in my mind, I have shamed myself in front of all of you Forum members and non-members.

Darn it, I don't know why I had it in my
mind that the author was passed.
Not Good and no excuses.

To Blackie- IF word of this error should ever reach you, I'm sorry I said you where deceased. I made a mistake and only wish I could take it back.
I really feel like a yard apple for sayin' that you where deceased. I do.

As far as the book goes- I'm sure it's selling briskly and will continue to.
I bought it for the same reason
everybody does- it's affordable.

Most Sincerely,
Colin Paterson, a.k.a. RealMontanan

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:32 pm

Well... My schrimshaw project is going slow as expected. I am 1/2 way through step 1. I bought the DVD and it came in the mail over a week ago. I have only watched half of it, but what I did watch was extremely interresting. Mr. Hergert makes it all look so so easy. Lots of great stuff. I can't wait until I get more time to dedicate to this.

Bryan

RealMontanan · Post by **RealMontanan** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:55 am

At scrimshaw that is!

Just click on these 4 links... The 1st IMAGE is just an outline....dot, dot, dot, shake head dot, dot, dot...

http://www.deadzoom.com/member/realmont ... NEATDZ.jpg

The 2nd image is how it looks this evening, Friday April 22, 2005.....

http://www.deadzoom.com/member/realmont ... NEATDZ.jpg

The 3rd, how the knife WILL look when it is put together...minus the actual scrim. I did this knife before doing any actual work on it in Photoshop Elements. First a photo of just the blade, and another of the antler, then the scrim and I used just the computer to make the guard and spacers. The top layer was the scrim... It's sort of a dream knife till I glue it up....

http://www.deadzoom.com/member/realmont ... ATDZII.jpg

4th.. a view from above the handle... when both Bulls are completed and the border is shaded, I am considering putting a Celtic design on the swell and run it up the centerline....??

http://www.deadzoom.com/member/realmont ... HANDLE.jpg

Comments are welcome... I wish I was better- but Bob Hergert assures me I'll look better when I work with IVORY... ! Antler, he says is tough. Well, I have to say I've struggled but then again, it ain't easy to do period. Although I do zone out and find I am totally relaxed after a good session. Like one square inch is a really good session for me.

realmontanan

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:50 pm

Mr. Montanan,

That looks awesome so far. I can't wait to see the finished product. Very impressive. Especially for your first project. Keep up the good work.

Bryan

RealMontanan · Post by **RealMontanan** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:49 am

Brian,

Thank you very much, I appreciate the compliment. It definitely is my first effort at scrimshaw. And man- can I tell!.... it's not an easy thing to do let alone do well. I'm not doing it 'well' yet but I'm going to hang in there because I like it. And I want to be able to do it well.

I can add that I have been an artist all my life. I used to do illustrations and then did portraits for a time. I didn't graduate from college with a degree in art but I went to college to study art and along came Uncle Sam's Major Plan. After that, I got hitched. So, when I was still a young man I made a name for myself doing extreme pencil renderings. I didn't say drawings because I never did a work with pencil that didn't take me at least 2 months to finish. I did one that took me 6 months. In those days I had three kids and a mortgage. Lots of pressure! I was young and had the right reasons to push myself and then I could work like a mean beast. And I did. I still like to paint with oils but draw only as a necessity. I've done wildlife bronzes and really like to do carvings in antler and ivory. The Mt. Goat Nanny and Kid in MY ICON or whatever we call those little pics UP IN THE CORNER is a carving I did with an elk antler rosette or burr what ever you call them.

Now, I've got the miles on me and feel them and I don't give a damn the way I used to. I'm a lot more laid back. And feel like time is running out and I want to learn new things. I hope to become a knifesmith ASAP and this is part and parcel. So this pace is fine for now. And to be honest, as long as I feel some momentum and I'm learning as much as my head can hold each day, I'm happy. I'm going to keep "scrimming" until 'MY STYLE' emerges and my techniques are solid and consistent. That will take time and several couple few good efforts. The more complicated and challenging the better. But really, I've learned a bucket load by just getting in there and thinking, and doing this first one even just to the point it is!

I can offer up one bit of advice from this project so far. I've found myself with having a real tendency to be heavy handed. I mean I carve too deep and push my pin in way to deep also. I put my first dots in way too deep! And that's not to smart! I made mistakes in placement and because the pin holes where like water wells, I've had to carve them out by shaving out the antler. Not Good! If I'd a just lightened up until I confirmed I had it just right, the piece would've looked a little nicer than it does. I suppose the other side will - and with the practice it should - look a little better than this one! I knew doing a double of anything would be a real challenge for me, but what's learning anything if it isn't a challenge?

I'm finding out the hard way with every part of this composition that getting the drawing transferred to the material as close to perfect is PARAMOUNT! I really forced myself into a couple of tight corners by being a bit impatient and sloppy by paying close enough attention to my EXACT placement. Oh well, it is what it is, and who knows I can still fudge here and there. I saw that familiar quote on some scrimshanders site....."Everybody makes mistakes, but if your good at what your doing, they don't show" And it's important to learn how to fix those "OH S**Ts!" to! If you could hold the handle and turn it in your hand and put the light off different parts of it, you'd see how 'chopped' things really are. And because I was going to post a picture, I cleaned it up as much as possible to.

For me, the FIRST ONE of almost anything I've tried to create is full of little mistakes and plenty of should-a's, could-a's, and would-a's but that's just one way of learning. For me, I gotta to DO IT - to - GET IT!

Brian, today I found the website of a WORLD CLASS scrimshander that has some different things going on and presents a whole new approach to think about! This guy does use the stipple technique a lot but he doesn't shy away from crosshatches, and lines... Lots a lines. Like pen and ink illustrations look...... sort of. Also he is into color! I liked the looks of his works a lot. His wildlife is powerfully presented and appears flawless to the eye! Spectacular! His name is Gary Williams a.k.a. GARBO And his work is as good as it gets! Well worth a look. He has a great "HOW I DO IT" section ....<URL>http://www.scrimbygarbo.com</URL>

Thanks again Brian. I really appreciate the compliment, and I hope you can settle enough to do a bit of scrimming yourself. When I first started, I did some of the Elk with a ball point in a sketch book. In my minds eye, I was using black dots instead of holes. But, you can see what you have to do ahead of time to make things look convincing. I feel the eyes make a big difference if they are done correctly. So that is what I worked on on the sketch pad. I made a minor blunder by not having all of the best reference materials to work with, so it was after the fact that I chose the direction of my light source..... should of done that sooner in the sketch stage. Anyway, I gotta git for now....
Best Regards,
Colin Paterson ~ a.k.a. realmontanan

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Wed May 04, 2005 4:35 pm

Hey Colin,

I just had a chance to check out that website that was in your last post. I think that may be the most awesome scrimshaw work that I have seen. The color looks very cool. This one is my favorite...

I am anxious to see how yours turns out too. Please keep us posted on the progress.

Bryan

RealMontanan · Post by **RealMontanan** » Wed May 04, 2005 7:10 pm

No Doubt Bryan! That is absolutely AWESOME I think! It is a rare thing to find a good image that is strong as far as composition, and execution go and ALSO reveals such impact! There are a lot of accurate wildlife images out there but very few have the shock power of a ticked off BIG CAT! I wish I would've done that one!
Bryan- I was thinking that that's how you where starting to feel if I MISSPELLED your name one more time! I apologize about that man.. my weak suit for sure! That tiger is so powerful that it seems to possess something more.... the emotion is there... something that is difficult to portray in wildlife very well because most of the time they don't change their looks too much... Did I tell you about the time a little furry weasel chased me off my fav fishin' hole... that little bundle of furry fury came at me and the look on his mug was just like that tiger and he meant business to! I had to back out of my fishing hole defending myself with my rod and nothing more than a couple of 1/8th oz. split shot on my line! (just broke out of a snag )
There are some incredible master scrimmers out there for inspiration and when I see that caliber of work, I use the impression to build me a star to shoot for..... although, a time or two I've felt more like going into the shop and cutting my hands off with a sledge hammer! For those with queasy stomachs, sorry about that....I'm kidding.

My wife's B-Day was yesterday and I laid off the Bull Elk Handle and did a scrimshawed pendant of her favorite (now gone forever) Labrador Retriever, Tara a female that made it down the line a long ways. She and our Springer both died this past winter...... So, although when I gave it to her yesterday, just the Lab portrait was done. I'll have to wait until she comes home from work to scan it and post a picture of that.... in the meantime here is the knife handle as of APR 29th, 05........I'm going to try the attachment thing AND include a hosted image just incase.... maybe I won't have to use the hosting company for this anymore! Anyway, things have changed some. And I'm beginning to think about adding a little bit of color. Not much, but if you think back, way back when all there was was B&W photography.... and people hand colored them... that is what I want to try with the bull elk when both sides are finished. B&W ink and then carefully a light glaze of thin color... I'll try some experiments on something else first though...

http://www.deadzoom.com/member/realmontanan/ASAPR29.jpg

RealMontanan · Post by **RealMontanan** » Thu May 05, 2005 10:13 pm

Here it is Bryan- In hand and up close.... what a project... for me anyway. I am more than happy the way it has gone so far. I used a nickle, a 5 cent piece, and twist drilled a hole in the coin edge. Then screwed the stainless eyescrew into it. All this after carefully grinding off the Jefferson face on one side and the building on the other.... that leaves me some room for glue to bite... and besides, Jefferson's head on my nickle stuck out past the coin rim. So, I had to do something to stop the ivory disc's rocking motion... anyway, this is how one side looks. The other side will have a Black & White Springer on it..... in a couple a more days.... Colin Paterson

How's yours comin' ?

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Thu May 05, 2005 10:26 pm

Hey Colin,

Will you be for hire when you get cought up??? I want one of your first pieces! How's mine coming you ask. I was affraid you would ask that eventually. I haven't even made it to step 2 yet. I have watched the DVD, which was very good. ...and that is as far as I have made it. I can't seem to find enough spare time. Maybe I should get off of this computer and get bussy huh

Keep up the good work and keep posting the pics!

Bryan

RealMontanan · Post by **RealMontanan** » Sat May 07, 2005 2:48 am

Bryan! Hey man, Thank YOU for your offer! I'd love to do something you'd like! Just name it and and I'll give it my best. Thanks!

Here in an honest effort, I am going to make daily postings of my progress. Or if the image didn't change enough because I was out spraying dandelions or fishin' it will be when there is a visible difference in the image. In my mind, I'm really going to try and step up another level here. So, that said, here is STEP 001 of "My Dog's Portrait, Step by Step" ..... And just by starting this, my third piece of scrimshaw and also the third animal, I've now learned the hard way that I shouldn't do the eye first like I prefer to do in pencil drawings or oils but wait until the end for the eye because when done first, it gets uncounted layers of ink/oil paint daubed on it and rubbed over it. So making that white sparkle that gives eyes their 'life' is not going to work out. Maybe I can put something like fingernail polish on it to protect it until the end and then scrape it off? I am even considering inlaying a tiny piece of Hippo Ivory I have here. It was the first piece of ivory I bought and after grinding the outer shell off at the cost of two $13.50 carbide Double Cut Dremel Burs, it has just been sitting on my table in a pint fruit jar. Back to the scrimshaw.... Almost all dots here. First thing I try for is to get a good "outline" drawing of the subject. Of course, like most things in this old world, if you start off wrong, even by a little, it has a tendency to amplify as you continue the process of adding on to or building on what came before. Especially if you continue to assume it is correct and don't catch it until it is a glaring error! So here she is as good as I could do it. I also pick out the DARKEST darks and the LIGHTEST lights in the entire image and make little "islands" that are delineated with dots out of them. That's it for the first installment! Thanks Again Bryan! You've made my week! No Doubt about it!
Colin Paterson, a.k.a. RealMontanan

crooner · Post by **crooner** » Sat May 07, 2005 3:16 am

RealMontanan wrote:Brian,

I've gone so far as to buy some Mammoth Ivory, a stereo microscope, and a little pile of pins w/ holders. I also bought an awesome DVD from a Scrimshander by the name of Bob Hergert. It's called, "SCRIMSHAW: Tools, Tips, and Techniques" I'm almost positive you can check out his work and order your own DVD at his website.... http://www.scrimshander.com. If that isn't it I will dig out my DVD box and look.
Bob Hergert takes you step by step through preparing the ivory, planning your design, and sits down and shows exactly how and what to do and use to accomplish your scrimshaw ideas. I'll admit I haven't put pin to Ivory as of yet, but I would be lost without Bob's expert guidance! HINT: For a cheap medium to practice on, I was told to use those white plastic spoons! Supposed to feel about the same as IVORY.... Good Luck! I am going to go check out the site you recommended right now! Later......

crooner · Post by **crooner** » Sat May 07, 2005 3:55 am

I don't get it, why would you go to all the work of makeing a spoon out of Ivory? And how is this saving money? Crooner

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Sat May 07, 2005 2:48 pm

Hi crooner,
Welcome to the forums...

Just as an aside, the "Man from Montana" wouldn't be MAKING a spoon out of ivory. He suggested PRACTICING on disposable plastic spoons as an inexpensive medium....a pretty slick idea, I'd say.

Bill

RealMontanan · Post by **RealMontanan** » Sun May 08, 2005 5:24 am

It goes so slow you have to drive stakes to see it happen even when you're lookin' right at it! Here is STEP 2.

Colin Paterson, a.k.a. RealMontanan

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Tue May 10, 2005 11:43 pm

Hi Colin,

I am seriously interested in having you do a scrimshaw for me. I am not letting you off the hook either as you have stated that you would do it.

I'll start looking for a subject and pallet. I'll email it to you, and if you approve of what I want, we will negotiate a price.

Bryan

RealMontanan · Post by **RealMontanan** » Wed May 11, 2005 4:41 am

Bryan! I am looking forward to it! I'd like to say more, but it's late tonight and I'm all in. But will be thinking about it for sure!

Here is STEP 3 of my effort to capture My Dog Lacy in Scrimshaw ....

RealMontanan · Post by **RealMontanan** » Thu May 12, 2005 3:30 am

Ever so slowly..... covering the dogs head that is only 5/8ths of an inch from nose to back of head... with tiny, tiny scratches that make the light and dark areas that our eyes take for hair, eye, lip, teeth, tongue, black, white and gray.

RealMontanan · Post by **RealMontanan** » Mon May 16, 2005 8:52 pm

Was down three days with a flu of some kind... Sorry for the delay.... I just couldn't concentrate well enough to even think about trying to work on My Dog's Portrait.... so here is what I got done just last night, Sun May, 15 2005.

All About Pocket Knives

Interested in trying to scrimshaw??

Interested in trying to scrimshaw??

Want to do some Scrimming...

The AFFORDABLE (cheap) book....

Blackie Collins.... Oh Boy.....

Here are a couple of PICTURES of my FIRST TIME!

Thank You BRIAN...

BRYAN'S FAV.....

2nd Scrimshaw Effort....

My Dog's Portrait, Step by Step Scrimshaw Step One, Piece #3

Re: Want to do some Scrimming...

Spoons for practice

My Dog's Portrait Step by Step Scrimshaw STEP 2

My Dog, STEP by STEP Portrait STEP 003

STEP 004

STEP 5, My Dog STEP BY STEP.