Punches and Files

[WVDAVE]

Well i'm finally trying to get some tools for my shop. Money is a little tight with me being laid-off but the wifey said i could get a few to start me off and keep me out of her hair (sometimes it pays to be a pain in the butt). What type and size files and punches would you guys recommend to get me started without breaking the bank?

Thanks,

[orvet]

The pin punch sizes I use most are 1/16” and 3/32” with an occasional 1/8”.
I get mine from Sears as Craftsman still guarantees their punches and you WILL be breaking 1/16” punches if you use them at all.

I find cheap files are a waste of time and money. I use mainly Swiss made files like Grobet. They cost about $15 to $20 for a 6” file, but they will outlast the $5 US made Nicholson files 5 or 6 to 1. Nicholsons will out last the $2 Chinese or Pakistan made files 10 to 1. In the long run I find the Swiss jeweler files to be cheaper and better to use. You can find them at jeweler supply houses like Otto Frei.

The file shapes I use most are 3-square (triangle shape), round (tapered) and a flat mill or mill bastard file. The round and 3-square are the ones I use most in filework.

Those are the ones I would say are most necessary.

Oh yes, you will also need a center punch frome time to time.
Here again I use Craftsman as they will replace them when they become flattened.
I also have a couple old center punches that I grind to a sharp point for small work.

Hope this helps,
Dale

[Elvis]

This doesn't contradict Dale (because he's right), but another source of punches are the cheap ones. Yes, even as cheap as the China jobs at Harbor Freight. The thing is that once you have your grinder set-up, you can grind some of the punches in the "economy pack" down to the sizes you need and you'll still have the ones in the pack that came the right sizes. You get what you pay for is as true for this as anything. They won't hold up very well, but at $5.99 for 10 punches or so, it ain't a bad deal and you get in some grinding practice.

Putting decorative filework aside for a moment, over the years I've found that it's important to know when to turn the grinder off and pick up the file. Best of luck and let us see what comes out of that work shop when you get the chance.

[orvet]

Putting decorative filework aside for a moment, over the years I've found that it's important to know when to turn the grinder off and pick up the file.

Very true Bob! Files are the most important tool in my shop, IMO.

Grinders are essentially fast, efficient files. The faster a tool removes material from your work, the bigger the possible mistakes you can make with that tool.

“Anything that can be made with a machine can be made with a file.” – Ben Kelly Jr., author of The Complete Book of Pocketknife Repair

[WVDAVE]

The pin punch sizes I use most are 1/16” and 3/32” with an occasional 1/8”.
I get mine from Sears as Craftsman still guarantees their punches and you WILL be breaking 1/16” punches if you use them at all.

I find cheap files are a waste of time and money. I use mainly Swiss made files like Grobet. They cost about $15 to $20 for a 6” file, but they will outlast the $5 US made Nicholson files 5 or 6 to 1. Nicholsons will out last the $2 Chinese or Pakistan made files 10 to 1. In the long run I find the Swiss jeweler files to be cheaper and better to use. You can find them at jeweler supply houses like Otto Frei.

The file shapes I use most are 3-square (triangle shape), round (tapered) and a flat mill or mill bastard file. The round and 3-square are the ones I use most in filework.

Those are the ones I would say are most necessary.

Oh yes, you will also need a center punch frome time to time.
Here again I use Craftsman as they will replace them when they become flattened.
I also have a couple old center punches that I grind to a sharp point for small work.

Hope this helps,
Dale

Dale what cut and diameter should I get on the round taper, what about the 3-square? Am I right in assuming that I should get 8" files?

[orvet]

Dale what cut and diameter should I get on the round taper, what about the 3-square? Am I right in assuming that I should get 8" files?

I was wrong, the newer ones I am using are 16cm (between 6" & 7").
They are also a bit cheaper than I remembered.

I use the 2 cut-
http://www.ottofrei.com/store/product.p ... 881&page=1

and the 6 cut to smooth the file marks, but it is not necessary if you have a good buffer.

[conslade]

Another excellent source for tools is haunting garage sales and estate sales. I find quite a few punches, drills and other tools. Used files are kinda suspect tho. They are easy to mess up thru misuse, better to buy new. Like Dale said, the Swiss files are top notch. Sears used to replace worn out Craftsman files, but I haven't tried this in quite a while. Remember, you get what you pay for.

[muskrat man]

Sears used to replace worn out Craftsman files, but I haven't tried this in quite a while. Remember, you get what you pay for.

They still do, I haven't bought a new file in about a year. Just remember to keep the package and card out and lightly oil the file before returning. I like the black oxide coated craftsman files I keep 6" 10" and 12" single cut bastard files on hand as well as a 6" taper 3 square. For filework I like chainsaw files, I usually just grab the oregon brand in the 3 various sizes

[Elvis]

Dave.....I've seen a lot of good advice flowing through here for you and I'm glad to see that you're sticking around (we get a lot of one-timers). While I do have a Baldor Buffer which is made for knife-making and heavy duty stuff, I also picked up one up from Sears about a year ago. It was labeled as a buffer and has a double shaft on it. Sorry I don't remember a price, but it's almost as good as the Baldor and a heck of a lot cheaper. I know that with being laid off, buying a brand new buffer might not be at the top of the list, but if the knives start to pay for themselves, the Sears is a good, less expensive way to go.

And the comment about knowing when to put away the power tools and pick up the file was a hard learned lesson. If you ever get to see OLD pictures of cutler's work benches, there is a hammer, a bench stiddy (anvil), and at least one file pictured as well as the knife materials. Small, fine files will allow you to pay your work that little extra attention to detail that you want (I just have to use mine with magnification and tri-focals now).

Good luck and keep us posted!

[orvet]

You can also make a buffer with a washing machine motor and a bench mandrel from Jantz. My first buffer was like that.

If you are trying to build a knife shop on a budget, I recommend Wayne Goddard’s book, “$50 Knife Shop.” Great info in that book!

[knives-are-quiet]

If you are on a budget try Grizzly Industrial®, Inc at Grizzly.com
They have lots of machinery to use in making knives at fair prices.
I have a 24 inch belt / 8 inch disk sander combo I got years ago.
It's way cheaper than some giant 72" knife makers sander.
Even though I can afford a knife makers sander now I like the Grizzly sander.
It's made tough and works well. I see no reason to buy some fancy thang'.
Most of my tools are hand me downs or ones I got real cheap.
My angle grinder was bought at Pep Boys and cost $19.99.
I've had it for years and it is still going strong.

J W

[orvet]

Grizzly does make decent inexpensive tools, far better than Harbor Freight IMO.
I have a Grizzly 2 X 72" belt sander. I think I paid under $300 shipped. It meets my needs for the time being. If I find myself doing more grinding I will likely upgrade at some point in time. The best thing about the 2 X 72 is that there are an abundance of belts made for it. There many different types of abrasives made for it; Zirconium, Ceramic, silicon carbide, aluminum oxide as well as polishing & Scotch Brite belts. You can get grits from 24 grit to 3000 grit. The selection of belts that are available, to me makes the most useful sander in my shop

There is no substitute quality. Top of the line equipment will usually do more, do it better & with more options than the low end equipment, but if I am just starting out on a piece of equipment I probably don’t know how to use it to its full potential. $300 for a 2 X 72” beats $2500 for a 2 hp, variable speed motor. I would like to have one, but there is far more I can do today with the other $2200 (if I actually had it)!

Yard sales and estate sales are a great source of tools! In fact that is where I get most of my tools. Last weekend I bought an old heavy duty Porter Cable random orbital sander for $7 and a Makita 6” hand held disc sander/buffer for $10. I bought a 64” (I think) metal band saw on the stand at a yard sale for $10. My 16” Delta band saw that I use for wood has a solid cast frame. I picked it up from my neighbor for $100 when he upgraded. I have a bench top drill press 4 speed Craftsman I bought on sale. My day wants a bench top, so I am trading him the Craftsman for his big floor stand model that is probably 40 years old and should last another 40 years. I bought a Foredom with a $50 handpiece at a sale at a pawnshop for $10; my first one cost me $200 on sale.

Here is the only pic I have of the buffer I made. It is setting behind the orange piece of junk from Harbor Freight. I am not using either at the moment. Both are in storage as my shop is too small for things I am not using all the time.

It takes time to get a shop setup where it is efficient and to get the tools and equipment that work best for you. But hey, making/modifying the stuff is half the fun! I hope you really enjoy getting your shop setup and making the tools and equipment that work well for you.