Who let the (at least this one) 'Dogs out??

[El Lobo]

OK,

I know Hukk has been doing all the work, but I could use some help on a Bulldog.....



This knife was sold to me by Jay Parker. It was said to be a First Generation BKC-43 Stockman. I bought it purely as an example of how the Olbertz factory does Stag, as it is in my mini group of Stag handled knives. But, now I'm wondering, hmmmmm.....

Anyway, the knife has no date. Fighting Dogs on all three blades. I've always thought it was probably a cobbled knife from the older parts, but don't know for sure.

I would very much like to hear your opinions on the knife...any and all of them, please.

Thanks,

Bill

[Hukk]

This appears to be the real McCoy. I have a sister knife sitting in front of me now. This is a 4 inch 3 blade Stockman BKC 43 and 296 were released in 1983. Here is it's sister for comparison, a Quarterhorseman BKC 44 and 294 were released. These knives are of the same series, both released in 1983. The only difference I see in the BKC 43 is that the pull goes down further, sometimes an indicator of a second generation as is the size of the dogs. This knife was made in the first, second, and third generations. From what I've been hearing the Parkers kept pretty close watch on the first generations. Third generation is easy, it will have a date or Surgical Inst. on the tang. The latest resources I have heard the Parkers kept a pretty close watch. Hope this helps.

[norsefan12]

I'm not truly convinced that the Parker's have any "dog" in the question of 1st Gen. knives, that was Charlie Dorton's company. As to 2nd Gen. knives, yes many knives were "cobbled" , using El Lobo's term, from old 1st Gen. blades. Different shields and handle material were tried to be used distinquising the different generations. I also believe that some of these knives were of such low run numbers that even the Parker's don't have accurate inventory numbers of them, thus many 2nd Gen. knives are not listed. Now for my "soapbox speech" on "VAULT KNIVES" . I believe there was such a large quantity of certain 1st Gen. overrun blades that the most logical and economical way of utilizing yhem was to put stag handles on them. Since the old stag was not available , this is the reason for 1st Gen. blades with what I call new stag or white stag handles ( white against bolsters on both handles). I hate to call them 1st Gen. because they weren't assembled during the 1st Gen. time period, and "letters of authenticity" are worth "a dime a dozen" and I sure don"t like the 2nd Gen. tag either on these stag knives because I'm not sure they were assembled during that 2nd Gen. time period. These knives seem to have flooded the market during the last 4 or 5 years. Hope I haven't rambled too long!!

[El Lobo]

Thank you for the input so far gentlemen.

Just as information, the knife does have the smaller dogs on all 3 blades.

The subject of Stag, on many of the knives made for the Parker's, is of course.....interesting to say the least.
But I shant visit there in this thread.

Interesting to me however, here is a newer model that displays typical German Stag/Bolster work, as mentioned by norsefan12, at the smaller bolster. But the larger bolster, on both sides, doesn't show the slanted/beveled "White" look.



Something old, something new. Whatever.

In keeping with the Bulldog/Baseball theme..... as it was said in A League of Their Own... "If it was easy, everybody could do it."

I guess that's one of the things that makes this interesting...and keeps us checking back from time to time.


Thanks again, and feel free to expound further.

Bill

[Hukk]

Looks like I may have posted a second generation knife
Here is another one, and it has a different look and the stag is much nicer. Norsefan is by far more knowledgeable with first and second generation knives than I. Olderdogs is very knowledgable in this area as well. The purpose for these polls and Bulldog questions is to learn, to learn accurately for me and everyone else as well, since the history of the Bulldog knife company is not well documented enough to suit my desires. If I do make an error please feel free to point it out, I have a need to know as well as a desire to know the truth.
I am grateful for the help I get because I am learning so much, I know enough to be dangerous and I apologize for any errors I made, and those that I will probably make in the future.
I am here to learn as much as possible, I've heard the same story that norsefan has just given us and I've heard the opposite. I would hope for norsefan and olderdogs and other knowledgable collectors (PLEASE) to expand on the first/second generation Bulldog knives. I think we would all benefit from such a discussion and that is exactly why we have this great site.
By all means, please feel free to expand futher, I would say for myself and many others, I want to hear more. I have a strong knowledge but by no means would I call myself an expert and if I am wrong, please let me know, it won't hurt my feelings. Accurate information is far more important. If I pass on information, I want it to be correct.

For me to learn, I need to participate or create polls and questions that add to my knowledge base, hopefully others feel as I do.
OK guys, show us your stuff and thanks!

[olderdogs1]

In comparing these knives The last Quarterhorseman Hukk put on is a definite 1st generation. If you will notice the serations on the matchstriker pull of the last post are not nearly as fine as they are on the 1st Quarterhorseman post. Also the stag is much older. I think when they talk about old blades most of the time it refers to older DATED blades and not necessarily main blades that were used in the 1st generation knives. It looks clear to me that the 1st knife was put together much later than the last one, maybe as late as 2000 or so, who really knows? .. The difference is pretty apparent in the two Quarthorseman that were posted. Thanks to Hukk for putting both knives on for comparison.

[norsefan12]

Now olderdogs, that's what I call old stag, beautiful handles. Comparison speaks for itself. Thanks for the serration explanation.

[olderdogs1]

El Lobo, To address your original question it would be my opinion that your stockman was perhaps put together later but is hard to tell without having the knife in hand. As for the stag on the second knife you posted I think it kind of depends on what kind of stag is available at the time the knife was made. I think that is why you see a lot of bulldogs with old blades/new stag having the same kind of stag. But that is just an opinion, I too like Hukk would welcome anyone with knowledge to comment.

[Hukk]

To olderdogs and norsefan, thank you very much. That First Generation Quarterhorseman with the fantastic stag was from a picture that olderdogs sent me with an explanation, it was too good not to post, I think everyone is admiring this knife. I took some copies of his knife pictures and some of the "cobbled" knife I posted and drew a circle around the telltale areas (pull serrations). I will post both sides of the knife so that the differences are easily seen. Thank you both very much for sharing your knowledge, you've both been quite invaluable and thanks for this lesson, I would say the vast majority of us were absolutely clueles about the serrations. Thanks!

[Hukk]

Here are the same knives just the other side so we can see the master blade. That is one fine knife with some really great stag. El Lobo, I had to steal your term, cobbled just fit so well.

[ilikeknives]

Hey you Bulldog folks, can you give me any info or help with these?? I basically know nothing about 'dogs' , The BD stag stock has double-dog stamp on all three blades and it also has the matchstricker pulls on all 3 as well. The lumberjack has all paperwork including the coa (PKCS) Thanks to any and all , I sho do appreciate it,-ILK

[Hukk]

Your Lumberjack has a long pull on the master blade, despite the 1983 date stamp on the other blade it is not a first generation, the long pull was on second generation knives. If it came with the opener, it may be of recent manufacture. The other looks like a 3 5/8 stockman, about 600 made in the fifth generation, the double dog head was after 2000. We had a Bulldog Poll on this knife, the Lumberjack. Please see:
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... php?t=1533

Parker's does give out COA's, sometimes they are correct, other times, they are just paper.

Any other opinions on this one?