Need help replacing leaf spring on leverlock

[Gus]

In MY opinion Hubertus DOES have a problem with spring tempering.
I have had too many broken springs [both back and kick] to excuse it all to "improper seating" !
One of the back springs that broke on me, was on an auxiliary blade NOT on the same side as the main blade :idea:
My favorite Hubie has a spring from an old Colt M-16 D/A [modified] to DO IT'S JOB

don't forget about this quote

[pacocap]

I don't know what happened but I made a post earlier long and short of it. Get a Hubertus spring. Remove the rear bolster pin Swing the backspring up take out broken spring replace by tapping in from the side like the pic above. Now if it seems obvious its a poor fit you'll now.

Yeah, I guess you were trying to make that point earlier but the post where you talked about it and the post with the photo were separate so confusing. I see from the photo you can pivot the backspring to replace the kickspring. That's convenient.

Dovetail schmovetail, stake schmake, see if it works. If it breaks dovetail or stake see if that works. You only know if you try. I'm not going to get in a debate about sliding versus temper, but I lean on the temper side. Even Bill said if the spring is the proper length it will sit right up to the tang of the blade so if it slips it will touch it.

I don't remember anyone saying anything about a debate. I was just pointing to some amplification on the subject, that's all. You were questioning whether the breakage is due to age or fatigue or whatnot and MM offered his reason and his solution which seems valid to me. And Bill verified that.

If you can't get it to work worst case scenario send it off to get fixed you're what out 7 bucks on the spring and if it works, well it only cost 7 bucks.

I don't see that happening. I think I can easily insert a spring even if it needs some modification. The worst case would be to have to make a spring from spring stock which doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

[Gus]

fair enough I don't think I have anything else to offer at this point so just post some results when you get around to it.

[pacocap]

In MY opinion Hubertus DOES have a problem with spring tempering.
I have had too many broken springs [both back and kick] to excuse it all to "improper seating" !
One of the back springs that broke on me, was on an auxiliary blade NOT on the same side as the main blade :idea:
My favorite Hubie has a spring from an old Colt M-16 D/A [modified] to DO IT'S JOB

don't forget about this quote

Right but he only states it as an opinion and only gives one isolated example for an "auxiliary blade" whatever that is.

The same guy goes on to say:

I STOPPED making ANY knife with a spring in it, [even pocket clips] because I had too many failures BUT based on the number I made [and failed] vs the number of Hubies I'VE had, [that had problems with springs] - I got them BEAT:roll:
Their "wokmanship" on everything else was FAR superior :idea:

So I think the MM and Mr. DeShivs make the more convincing arguments. In any case, if dovetailing or staking virtually eliminate the problem, I want to know much more about the two techniques. Obviously an ounce of prevention would save a lot of time trying to find a spring that fits and probably having to modify it to fit and taking apart and putting back together your knife with no extra parts left on the table. Old IBM poster:

Do it right the first time . . .

If you have to replace the spring by disassembly then why not take the extra step of making it a "permanent" repair. Again I'm guessing that this is not rocket science.

[pacocap]

fair enough I don't think I have anything else to offer at this point so just post some results when you get around to it.

OK I will but if the Hubertus spring doesn't fit, you take the blame. If it does I take the credit. LOL!

BTW thanks a lot for showing me that pivot trick AFTER I broke off a piece of the handle scale while continuing to try to dislodge the spring with the knife intact. You did that on purpose didn't you so I would HAVE to re-scale it.

[muskrat man]

once again it seems to be the issue of using logic. I learnt a long time ago it takes less time and saves you a lot of aggravation to do it right the first time then to temporarily jerry rig it just to "see what happens". I forgot I had this bonsa chrome cigar in the shop that I was sent to repair, so I fit a 10cm hubertus spring to it, and staked it in via center punch. dovetailing the spring is pretty self explanitory, making the notch wider at the rear than the front so the spring cannot slip forward. After staking the spring on both sides I could not pull it out with a pair of pliers with the backspring portion in a vice, so it does work and takes just a teeny bit more effort and you save yourself the headache of another spring breaking from something that possibly could have been prevented. "An ouce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

[orvet]

I have an old Weidmannsheil leverlock someone sent me for a repair that has a broken kicker and a broken backspring.
The whole setup looks like the one Kaleb just posted.
I am thinking I might be able to make a new backspring out of 1095 and use one of the Hubie 11 cm springs for the kicker spring.



Has anyone else done this or know if it is possible?

Dale

[muskrat man]

I have an old Weidmannsheil leverlock someone sent me for a repair that has a broken kicker and a broken backspring.
The whole setup looks like the one Kaleb just posted.
I am thinking I might be able to make a new backspring out of 1095 and use one of the Hubie 11 cm springs for the kicker spring.



Has anyone else done this or know if it is possible?

Dale

Sounds feasible to me Dale. post some pics if you get a chance or better yet, shoot me some dimensions I have a few backsprings stuffed away in a box out in the shop somewhere. Is it a conventional springer or a shellpuller?

[orvet]

Here is a pic. It is a conventional, not a shell puller.

I had another complete assembly with a 10.5 cm kicker spring. The backspring was about .5 cm short.
The length of the backspring is 11 cm.

Thanks Kaleb, I appreciate the help.
Dale

[Gus]

I hear you loud and clear but for the sake of arguement just say you stake that spring in and it still breaks do to poor temper or just cause springs break. Then what, where's the blame then you did it right the first time? It's not "jury" rigging when you slip it in like it was intended. Why doesn't hubertus stake them in? They've been doing it that way for what a 100 years? Hey but it's cool it's like weeds to a landscaper job security when a spring breaks. Me personally I think staking and dove tailing is jury rigging you're taking a proven design and prolonging the inevitable, a broken spring due to the fact it's metal it's been manipulated by us to so something different but it can't do it forever and it's bound to break. Then you can't just buy a 10 dollar spring that Hubertus supplies (for what reason?) cause they know ther're bound to break also, then instead of slipping them in and it can be done properly and improperly you have to send it off and have it professionally repaired. Why do people store switches open? Because they're afraid the springs will break or loose spring, right? Not because they may break due to improper seating. There is the same debate in the gun world should I leave my mags loaded or unloaded will my springs wear out? Some say leave em loaded some say no way.

I respect all opinions this is only mine...

[Gus]

Hubertus springs may or may not work depending on the size of the slot and the actual length needed (many companies had lsight differences in the lgnth of thier springs)

you say this in an earlier post and then you lean on it's totally feasable to interchange other vintage parts and hubertus springs?? So now I'm confused. To me it seems like it is or should be a trade secret that Hubertus springs will fit in most if not all vintage German levers and we see the proof above.

it seems to be the issue of using logic

I didn't lean on "totally" feasible, I said it "seems" feasible. Meaning it depends entirely on the individual knife/spring's tolerances. You won't know until you try! Until the plan is put into action is all just speculation. He asked, I gave my veiw; as I did with papo. There is less chance a hubertus spring will work with papo's knife because it is not even of German manufacture (unlike the Weidmanns Heil), it's Italian, I thought that inconsistancy would have been apparent.

[pacocap]

once again it seems to be the issue of using logic. I learnt a long time ago it takes less time and saves you a lot of aggravation to do it right the first time then to temporarily jerry rig it just to "see what happens".

Amen brotha'.

I forgot I had this bonsa chrome cigar in the shop that I was sent to repair, so I fit a 10cm hubertus spring to it, and staked it in via center punch.

So you just raise a small tab of metal with the center punch? I assume you do the same on the other side?

dovetailing the spring is pretty self explanitory, making the notch wider at the rear than the front so the spring cannot slip forward.

Nevertheless "picture worth thousand words". No offense meant to asians OK? It's just an expression.

After staking the spring on both sides I could not pull it out with a pair of pliers with the backspring portion in a vice, so it does work and takes just a teeny bit more effort and you save yourself the headache of another spring breaking from something that possibly could have been prevented. "An ouce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

Alleluia and repeat the chorus.

Thanks for the pic and the insight.

[pacocap]

Why doesn't hubertus stake them in? They've been doing it that way for what a 100 years? Hey but it's cool it's like weeds to a landscaper job security when a spring breaks.

That looks like one of those self-answering questions.

Me personally I think staking and dove tailing is jury rigging you're taking a proven design and prolonging the inevitable, a broken spring due to the fact it's metal it's been manipulated by us to so something different but it can't do it forever and it's bound to break.

I think the key here is:

prolonging the inevitable

Whatever you wanna call it, that would seem to be an excellent 'side effect'.

Then you can't just buy a 10 dollar spring that Hubertus supplies (for what reason?) cause they know ther're bound to break also, then instead of slipping them in and it can be done properly and improperly you have to send it off and have it professionally repaired.

Obviously not for the masses but if it, say, doubles the normal spring life span wouldn't it be worth it? Besides, how hard is it to do it yourself? A more important question is: how much longer will the spring last when it is staked? How many times can you re-stake the backspring before you need to replace IT?

[Gus]

Well once again looks like you have all the answers you need, so fix that damn thing lol. Let us know how it goes.

[pacocap]

Well once again looks like you have all the answers you need, so fix that damn thing lol. Let us know how it goes.

Working on it right now.

[pacocap]

Here are pics of the disassembled knife.













The verdigris is easily scraped off with a fingernail. The spring has a 45
degree angle at the end that fits into a similar angle in the pocket. I had to
tap it out sideways with a pin punch. It was very tight. The spring is only
2x3mm but Stephen thinks a Hubertus will fit. I am skeptical but will give it a
try anyway. Have to order it now.

[g1rock]

I know someone that has hubertus springs that should fit if you still need them