Wharncliffe Knives

[Dinadan]

Those are three fine knives, KJ. The MOP on that Chamblin is exceptional: and you did a great job of capturing the fire in the MOP!

Q - I would call those two Queens wharncliffe knives. I think it would be more correct to call the mini copperheads a variation of the wharncliffe pattern than to call the Queens a variation of the mini copperhead pattern. Just my opinion, and I do not claim to be especially knowledgeable. Nice Cases and Queens, by the way!

[wlf]

Beautiful pearls Roland,what material is the Chamblin shield?

Aloha, and I agree with Mel. I really liked those Queen wharncliffes,they made some nice whittlers with that frame,don't know if there was a difference in the sizes.

[kootenay joe]

Wilf, the shield is gold, (24k i think) correction: shield & pins are 14k gold.
I have a few Chamblins and this is one of the finest, combines graceful flowing lines with crisp blade action.
kj

[jerryd6818]

So, would the two Queen #46s (at bottom of photo) be considered "Wharncliffe" knives? I've always considered them to be Queen's version of the Case Mini-Copperhead.

~Q~

~Q~, it's the little things. Note the top two Copperheads have that little bump on the bolster at one end. I've been laboring under the impression that single end "bump" is what makes them a Copperhead. Apologies if you already knew that. Maybe someone else didn't. Corrections welcomed.

I'm going to go +3 and agree with the others that the bottom two are Wharncliffe.

During the formative years of my knife addiction, I too thought the blade profile was defined as Wharncliffe. Then several years ago, someone whose knife knowledge I respected made the distinction and pointed out the frame as being the original definition of Wharncliffe. I understood that and filed it away in my brain cage but also stuck in that scary place is the blade profile and my original definition which screams Wharncliffe every time I see it.

Edit: To muddy the waters further. Every blade profile has a name, what would you call that blade profile if not Wharncliffe?

[kootenay joe]

Jerry, i would not call the upper 2 knives a copperhead pattern, the bolster swell is at the wrong end, you could say it has a 'cap swell' rather than a 'bolster swell'. I am not familiar with Case but i think they call this a "mini-copperhead" ?
I try to avoid names made up by a marketing department because different companies use different names for the same pattern. If we stick with generally accepted definitions then we all know what each other is talking about.
kj

[jerryd6818]

Roland, I live by the creed, they made it, they get to name it anything they want to. I adopted that stance long ago when the purists tried to tell me a Camillus 72 isn't a whittler. Well Camillus called it a Carpenters and Whittlers knife when they introduced it, then later dropped the Carpenters and just called it a Whittler so Whittler it is.

For me, if it has a bump on either end, it's a Copperhead. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Thank you for yours.

[kootenay joe]

O.K., maybe i'll call it a "Reverse Copperhead", or a "Copperbutt" ?
kj

[jerryd6818]

I kinda like Copperbutt. Innovative.

[carrmillus]

I didn't know Wharncliffe was a pattern only. I thought it was a blade shape/design. -snip-

Ivoryman - at some point I figured that there had to be a name for the body shape of these knives. When I posted a question about what they were called, a knowledgeable poster responded that they were called wharncliffes. I thought the gentleman had misconstrued my question and was talking about the blades. Later I realized he had answered my question but I misconstrued the answer. So trust me, you are not the first to be a bit mystified by knife terminology.

Here is a little Schrade that might be truly termed a worncliffe.

....that looks like a split-spring whittler to me!!!...... .........

[Dinadan]

....that looks like a split-spring whittler to me!!!...... .........

You are right: a Schrade Walden 836. So it is both a wharncliffe and a split spring whittler. See, that is what I am learning to love about pocket knives - there seems to be no end to the mostly useless but fascinating lore associated with these most common of tools. It was my budding interest in the whittler pattern that drew me to the wharncliffe pattern. Then at some point I felt that with wharncliffe whittlers "I've discovered the real thing, the only genuine occupation for a life time. I propose to devote the remainder of mine to it, and can only regret the wasted years that lie behind me, squandered in trivialities" I wonder if anyone reading this can identify that quote. If you can I bet you read to children!

[danno50]

Beautiful knives, Joe and QCut5!
Dan

[wlf]

Mel ,
I don't know who said that ,but it sounds like something Theodor Seuss Geisel would have said.

Again,by the way,we started the same way towards our love for this frame style.

[kootenay joe]

Since this discussion is now about correct use of knife terminology, let's look at the term "split backspring whittler". These have not been made for over 125 years. A split backspring whittler is a 3 blade one spring knife. The one forged spring is split lengthwise from one end to about half it's length.
This was the original way to make a whittler.
I am here on AAPK because i got BANNED FOREVER from BF by 'Blues' for correcting his use of "split backspring whittler". He has a problem with not being right 100% of the time.
I hope i don't get kicked out of here for posting the same info as i posted on uptight BF.
kj

[bestgear]

The Wind In The Willows - one of my sons favorite books.

"Live for others!" That's my motto in life!

[QTCut5]

O.K., maybe i'll call it a "Reverse Copperhead", or a "Copperbutt" ?
kj

Love it! However, as I recently learned, the end you are calling the "butt" is actually the "head" so the knife pattern commonly referred to as a copperhead (with the bump on the pivot end) is incorrectly named...that's the one that should be called a "Reverse Copperhead or a Copperbutt." If you don't believe me, then how do you explain a knife with no bolster at the non-pivot end being commonly called a BareHEAD"?

And while we're pondering all this...what's "copper" got to do with anything, anyway?

~Q~

PS--Bolster The metal tips at the end(s) of a knife's handles. There are dozens of specialized names for the different styles of bolsters. On a jack knife the bolster opposite the blade-pivot end is called the "top", or "head", or "cap" bolster. The bolster at the blade-pivot end is the "bottom" bolster. A jack knife with no cap bolsters is called a "barehead jack." A knife with no bolsters is called a "shadow." (from Uncle Ron's -Glossary of Knife Terminology)

[danno50]

Since this discussion is now about correct use of knife terminology, let's look at the term "split backspring whittler". These have not been made for over 125 years. A split backspring whittler is a 3 blade one spring knife. The one forged spring is split lengthwise from one end to about half it's length.
This was the original way to make a whittler.
I am here on AAPK because i got BANNED FOREVER from BF by 'Blues' for correcting his use of "split backspring whittler". He has a problem with not being right 100% of the time.
I hope i don't get kicked out of here for posting the same info as i posted on uptight BF.
kj

kj, BF's lose, AAPK's gain! Don't believe that anyone has ever been banned from AAPK?
Dan

[wlf]

Roland,
I think the climate here is about perfect. You might get kicked around some here,but not out of meanness. Hostility is rare here,as it should be.

What do we call the whittler with the tapered shim and the double springs,as I did not follow the BF thing? Curious? I have a true split spring I'll try to scan and one of "the other".

[jerryd6818]

Don't believe that anyone has ever been banned from AAPK?
Dan

Au contraire mon frère. That occurrence is as scarce as hens teeth but it has happened. Mostly trolls before Bryan "fixed" the sign up to mostly weed them out early but there have been a couple of active members banned since I've been here.

And Lyle is correct, meanness and knock down drag out fights are very infrequent.

And here's the first (the only) Case Seahorse Whittler I bought. I didn't like it near as well in hand as I did in pictures so I traded it off and now I'm sorry I did.

[QTCut5]

And here's the first (the only) Case Seahorse Whittler I bought. I didn't like it near as well in hand as I did in pictures so I traded it off and now I'm sorry I did.

Ahh, that explains your "reluctance-to-trade" policy...now I get it.

~Q~

[jerryd6818]

And here's the first (the only) Case Seahorse Whittler I bought. I didn't like it near as well in hand as I did in pictures so I traded it off and now I'm sorry I did.

Ahh, that explains your "reluctance-to-trade" policy...now I get it.

~Q~

Just one of several ~Q~ but yes, that and the hoarder gene I inherited.

[carrmillus]

Don't believe that anyone has ever been banned from AAPK?
Dan

Au contraire mon frère. That occurrence is as scarce as hens teeth but it has happened. Mostly trolls before Bryan "fixed" the sign up to mostly weed them out early but there have been a couple of active members banned since I've been here.

And Lyle is correct, meanness and knock down drag out fights are very infrequent.

Run Off The Rails.jpg

And here's the first (the only) Case Seahorse Whittler I bought. I didn't like it near as well in hand as I did in pictures so I traded it off and now I'm sorry I did.

........jerry, if I bought a c--e knife, my grandfather would start kicking the dirt off his grave!!!!........... ....................

[QTCut5]

Well, Jerry, the good news is that there is no shortage of Case Seahorse Whittlers currently for sale; so, you can always get yourself another one to replace the one you regret having traded away. (While you're at it, you might want to pick up an extra one or two to toss on carmilluss' ancestor's grave to fill in the holes! )

~Q~

[kootenay joe]

QT, i do know that the butt is really the head when speaking of knives but we're going to have an uphill battle to get other knifers to talk about their "Copperbutt" knives. "Copperhead" because the bolster flares somewhat, almost, barely, like a flared out head of a Copperhead snake.
As for the getting banned 'thing', i always post respectfully and honestly, never troll, so i'm safe here. Thank goodness, because goodness is good.
kj

[Dinadan]

The Wind In The Willows - one of my sons favorite books.

"Live for others!" That's my motto in life!

Correct! And a good choice for a favorite book.

KJ - a always figured the name copperhead was a reference to the shape of the knife echoing the big head on the pit viper, but I have never actually read that anywhere.

Regarding the definition of split backspring whittler ... I have seen photos of one or two of those old knives with the notch cut down the center of the spring and I understand that those were the original and hence true split backspring whittlers. But those are rare enough that maybe they just need a special notation if talking about them.

Mel ,
Again,by the way,we started the same way towards our love for this frame style.

It took a while, maybe a year, before I realized that I liked the wharncliffe frame better than any other. It is a shame that more knives are not make on the wharncliffe frame.

[jerryd6818]

Well, Jerry, the good news is that there is no shortage of Case Seahorse Whittlers currently for sale; so, you can always get yourself another one to replace the one you regret having traded away. (While you're at it, you might want to pick up an extra one or two to toss on carmilluss' ancestor's grave to fill in the holes! )

~Q~

I think if I replaced it I would want to get one just like the one I traded off. I kind of liked that script shield. I'm not as hard line as Tommy (I have a couple dozen or more) but I'm just not a huge Case fan.

I do like the Wharncliffe frame but it's the Wharncliffe blade that gets my motor running.