Old and Obscure Brands

[galvanic1882]

Welcome, covers and bolsters scream Utica!!

[KJG]

Hi there! I'm new here and I hope I'm posting inte right thread.

Any information and thoughts about these two knives are much appreciated.

The first one has "PACIFIC HDWL STEEL CO" stamped in the bigger blade and model number (i guess) 2445 in the smaller. Is Pacific Hardware Steel Co in San Francisco the maker? I read something about that in another thread here.

Welcome to AAPK. As a general rule hardware companies did not manufacture cutlery, they contracted with cutlery manufacturers to have knives made and stamp them with the hardware company name. There are some notable exceptions but I don’t know that Pacific Hardware & Steel was one of them. Someone here may know more about who made it. Napanoch would be a possibility.

Ken

Thank you! Ohh I see. I guess at least you should get information about age from the kind of stamp used by the company? Did the hardware company's use alot of different makers or is it possible to narrow it down to a few makers used?

I'm from Sweden and this is the first American vintage knives I've searched information about.

Welcome, covers and bolsters scream Utica!!

Thank you!

[Mumbleypeg]

One cannot always estimate a knife’s age from the stamps. Sometimes you can, but some companies rarely or never changed their stamps over many decades, which does not allow for estimating age from the stamps. In those cases “reading the knife” for clues like materials, construction etc may give some help determine approximate age, or who made it. Prior to the rise of popularity of knife collecting (generally pre-1970s) very few knife buyers cared about knowing the age of knives. After that time researchers have attempted to estimate and document when certain stamps were used. Occasionally there is clear documentation but very few cutleries kept records, so most dates are “guesstimates”.

Some of the best references are old catalogs in which stamps can be seen and patterns can be compared, thereby establishing a date reference. (The stamp or pattern may be different in a later catalog). Often a pattern made for and stamped with a hardware firm name can also be found in a cutlery company catalog, therefore identified as being made by them.

Utica, Schrade, Napanoch, Camillus are among cutlery companies that hardware firms contracted for making their knives. It was not uncommon for a hardware firm to contract with several different cutleries. The only hardware firm I can think of that owned their own cutlery is Simmons, which at one time owned both Walden Knife, and Winchester. Research into those companies and their cutlery relationships makes an interesting study. Might be a good subject for a thread here on this forum, if one doesn’t already exist.

Ken

[KJG]

One cannot always estimate a knife’s age from the stamps. Sometimes you can, but some companies rarely or never changed their stamps over many decades, which does not allow for estimating age from the stamps. In those cases “reading the knife” for clues like materials, construction etc may give some help determine approximate age, or who made it. Prior to the rise of popularity of knife collecting (generally pre-1970s) very few knife buyers cared about knowing the age of knives. After that time researchers have attempted to estimate and document when certain stamps were used. Occasionally there is clear documentation but very few cutleries kept records, so most dates are “guesstimates”.

Some of the best references are old catalogs in which stamps can be seen and patterns can be compared, thereby establishing a date reference. (The stamp or pattern may be different in a later catalog). Often a pattern made for and stamped with a hardware firm name can also be found in a cutlery company catalog, therefore identified as being made by them.

Utica, Schrade, Napanoch, Camillus are among cutlery companies that hardware firms contracted for making their knives. It was not uncommon for a hardware firm to contract with several different cutleries. Research into those companies and their cutlery relationships makes an interesting study. Might be a good subject for a thread here on this forum, if one doesn’t already exist.

Ken

Thanks alot! Great information for a newbie as me

I think i will get hold of some literature and educate myself about American knives.

[Waukonda]

Hi there! I'm new here and I hope I'm posting inte right thread.



I have a hard time reading the stamp on the knife with mother of pearl handle. Maybe someone here recognizes the stamp?

Witte Hdwe was another longtime St Louis store, and would be a possibility.

Welcome to AAPK

[knifegnome]

Yes, the celluloid knife with the nail pull way out on the blade looks like Utica.

[New_Windsor_NY]

This pocket knife arrived very recently in a large group of pocket knives that I bought. I did NOT purchase the group to obtain this particular pocket knife. However, it did turn out to be a keeper. It is an Autopoint, two blades, one tang stamp, 3 1/8" closed, pocket knife. The main blade tang stamp reads "Autopoint - CHICAGO - USA." It is in EXCELLENT condition and it did NOT require any cleaning at all. I took some pictures and here it is.
Caption(s), if any, are on the BOTTOM of the corresponding picture(s).
Click on a picture to ENLARGE.

[cudgee]

One cannot always estimate a knife’s age from the stamps. Sometimes you can, but some companies rarely or never changed their stamps over many decades, which does not allow for estimating age from the stamps. In those cases “reading the knife” for clues like materials, construction etc may give some help determine approximate age, or who made it. Prior to the rise of popularity of knife collecting (generally pre-1970s) very few knife buyers cared about knowing the age of knives. After that time researchers have attempted to estimate and document when certain stamps were used. Occasionally there is clear documentation but very few cutleries kept records, so most dates are “guesstimates”.

Some of the best references are old catalogs in which stamps can be seen and patterns can be compared, thereby establishing a date reference. (The stamp or pattern may be different in a later catalog). Often a pattern made for and stamped with a hardware firm name can also be found in a cutlery company catalog, therefore identified as being made by them.

Utica, Schrade, Napanoch, Camillus are among cutlery companies that hardware firms contracted for making their knives. It was not uncommon for a hardware firm to contract with several different cutleries. Research into those companies and their cutlery relationships makes an interesting study. Might be a good subject for a thread here on this forum, if one doesn’t already exist.

Ken

Thanks alot! Great information for a newbie as me

I think i will get hold of some literature and educate myself about American knives.

One thing though, while your learning just enjoy the hobby.

[Papa Bones]

This pocket knife arrived very recently in a large group of pocket knives that I bought. I did NOT purchase the group to obtain this particular pocket knife. However, it did turn out to be a keeper. It is an Autopoint, two blades, one tang stamp, 3 1/8" closed, pocket knife. The main blade tang stamp reads "Autopoint - CHICAGO - USA." It is in EXCELLENT condition and it did NOT require any cleaning at all. I took some pictures and here it is.
Caption(s), if any, are on the BOTTOM of the corresponding picture(s).
Click on a picture to ENLARGE.

Cool little knife Skip. I myself have seen very few Autopoint knives that didn't have a promo / advertisement etch on the handles.

[New_Windsor_NY]

Cool.....

Thank you, Smitty.
At some point in time, it may have had something
written on the handle(s). But if it did, it definitely doesn't now.

[JohnR]

Rare pattern, a Delmar Cutlery Co Eureka Jack, ebony, looks to have had little use. Various references put it at 1910 or 1930's, being the pattern I'm thinking the 1910 is more likely.
Little known on the maker, some say it was a Simmons line, other say German made. The symbol on the back of the blade tangs, a half circle with a dot makes me think German although I cannot find a reference for it.

[peanut740]

Fantastic old knife John.Depending on age, many early German knives the O in Co. was underlined. I don't know if that is always the case, but if it has an underline it's German.

[knifegnome]

Beautiful knife, I love Eureka patterns.

[JohnR]

Fantastic old knife John.Depending on age, many early German knives the O in Co. was underlined. I don't know if that is always the case, but if it has an underline it's German.

Thanks Roger, no underline, wondering if it's German why it's not marked Germany. Still trying to dig up information on the company or the mark on the tangs. One explanation I came across for the stamp on the tangs is it could be a American steel foundry or heat treat mark but I have not confirmed that. I do have a stainless Challenge scout that has a similar stamp on back tang main blade, a half circle no dot.

[FRJ]

Rare pattern, a Delmar Cutlery Co Eureka Jack, ebony,

What a grand and stylish and beautiful old pocket knife, John.
I wish that pattern was more available.

[peanut740]

Fantastic old knife John.Depending on age, many early German knives the O in Co. was underlined. I don't know if that is always the case, but if it has an underline it's German.

Thanks Roger, no underline, wondering if it's German why it's not marked Germany. Still trying to dig up information on the company or the mark on the tangs. One explanation I came across for the stamp on the tangs is it could be a American steel foundry or heat treat mark but I have not confirmed that. I do have a stainless Challenge scout that has a similar stamp on back tang main blade, a half circle no dot.

Yes the Challenge stainless knives have a u on the back of the blades.

[eveled]

One cannot always estimate a knife’s age from the stamps. Sometimes you can, but some companies rarely or never changed their stamps over many decades, which does not allow for estimating age from the stamps. In those cases “reading the knife” for clues like materials, construction etc may give some help determine approximate age, or who made it. Prior to the rise of popularity of knife collecting (generally pre-1970s) very few knife buyers cared about knowing the age of knives. After that time researchers have attempted to estimate and document when certain stamps were used. Occasionally there is clear documentation but very few cutleries kept records, so most dates are “guesstimates”.

Some of the best references are old catalogs in which stamps can be seen and patterns can be compared, thereby establishing a date reference. (The stamp or pattern may be different in a later catalog). Often a pattern made for and stamped with a hardware firm name can also be found in a cutlery company catalog, therefore identified as being made by them.

Utica, Schrade, Napanoch, Camillus are among cutlery companies that hardware firms contracted for making their knives. It was not uncommon for a hardware firm to contract with several different cutleries. The only hardware firm I can think of that owned their own cutlery is Simmons, which at one time owned both Walden Knife, and Winchester. Research into those companies and their cutlery relationships makes an interesting study. Might be a good subject for a thread here on this forum, if one doesn’t already exist.

Ken

Great post. Should be required reading for new members.

[JohnR]

Rare pattern, a Delmar Cutlery Co Eureka Jack, ebony,

What a grand and stylish and beautiful old pocket knife, John.
I wish that pattern was more available.

Thanks Joe, I also wish they were more available, I've literally been looking for years to find one, they just never come up for sale.

Great Eastern does a great job on new made ones and it is my favorite GEC pattern, some comparison shots.

[Ridgegrass]

Levine says c.1910 "Germany?" " Imported Brand?". Houston Price just says, "C. 1910" ??? Good luck. Nice knife.. J.O'.

[New_Windsor_NY]

This pocket knife arrived very recently. It is just one in a large group of pocket knives that I bought. I did NOT purchase the group to obtain this particular pocket knife. However, it is a good looking, functional, keeper pocket knife. It is a FORGED U.S.A., two blades, single tool, single tang stamp, 2 3/4" closed, all metal pocket knife. The main blade tang stamp reads "FORGED - U.S.A." It is in EXCELLENT condition. It did NOT require any cleaning at all. I took some pictures and here it is.
Caption(s), if any, are on the BOTTOM of the corresponding picture(s).
Click on a picture to ENLARGE.

[Papa Bones]

This pocket knife arrived very recently. It is just one in a large group of pocket knives that I bought. I did NOT purchase the group to obtain this particular pocket knife. However, it is a good looking, functional, keeper pocket knife. It is a FORGED U.S.A., two blades, single tool, single tang stamp, 2 3/4" closed, all metal pocket knife. The main blade tang stamp reads "FORGED - U.S.A." It is in EXCELLENT condition. It did NOT require any cleaning at all. I took some pictures and here it is.
Caption(s), if any, are on the BOTTOM of the corresponding picture(s).
Click on a picture to ENLARGE.

Nice one Skip.

[New_Windsor_NY]

Nice.....

Thank you, Smitty.

[BWT]

Tunnel City?? Not sure how old it is, but obscure for sure? Maybe a small hardware company? Any comments or opinions on who might have made it? Small blade appears a little short but really good snap. Thanks for your help!

[Mumbleypeg]

Nice find Bill! I didn’t see anything in Goins’ but Levine’s has “Tunnel City, Tunnel City, WI., Mfr.?” No dates. I interpret that to mean he thinks they were a cutlery manufacturer, but is not sure.

Ken

[BWT]

Thanks Ken I appreciate the information