Case XX 1965 - 1969 opinions needed ref crack on scale

[mdpmedia1]

remake side-by-side: 3 of 4

[mdpmedia1]

remake side-by-side: 3 of 4...

[mdpmedia1]

remake side-by-side: 4 of 4...

[btrwtr]

mdpmedia1, I was not going to comment on this post but since you PM'd me concerning this I will give my opinion here.

You have succeeded in taking a collectible knife and adulterating to the point that a knowlegable collector would not entertain buying it. Looks like the blade you had was put in a different and much newer frame. The bone on the knife is completely incorrect for a USA stamped knife blade. The newer shield is not correct for the knife. The handle pins also are not correct. The knife now borders on what I would consider a Frankenknife or counterfeit.

Placing a better handle patch on the original frame would have at least kept the knife real and collectible.

[peanut740]

mdpmedia1, I was not going to comment on this post but since you PM'd me concerning this I will give my opinion here.

You have succeeded in taking a collectible knife and adulterating to the point that a knowlegable collector would not entertain buying it. Looks like the blade you had was put in a different and much newer frame. The bone on the knife is completely incorrect for a USA stamped knife blade. The newer shield is not correct for the knife. The handle pins also are not correct. The knife now borders on what I would consider a Frankenknife or counterfeit.

Placing a better handle patch on the original frame would have at least kept the knife real and collectible.

[stockman]

Seems to me he probably messed up two knives.

Harold

[mdpmedia1]

@ btrwtr

You have succeeded in taking a collectible knife and adulterating to the point that a knowlegable collector would not entertain buying it. Looks like the blade you had was put in a different and much newer frame. The bone on the knife is completely incorrect for a USA stamped knife blade. The newer shield is not correct for the knife. The handle pins also are not correct. The knife now borders on what I would consider a Frankenknife or counterfeit.

Placing a better handle patch on the original frame would have at least kept the knife real and collectible.

I am far from being a troll and will never hesitate to speak my mind on any seemingly uninformed comments lacking supporting evidence. That's what the 1st Amendment promotes: peaceful free speech for both you and me.

With that small reminder I would suggest that before expressing negative comments about any major type of repair it would seem reasonable to first ask who or what organization actually performed the corrective measures. I personally did not do anything to this knife other than request that it be fixed to a more acceptable specimen.

I sincerely felt that the damage resulted from less than sturdy scale material not holding up against reasonable external forces. I placed my thoughts in a letter to the Case factory. They in turn agreed with me and did 'free of charge' perform all of the work that you now see. I love the work that they did and know that this knife will now fetch much more $ in its current condition compared to the original state.

I know that I would have strong reservations calling up the Case factory and stating the above narrative. From my point of view Case would probably tell anyone writing like this to 'pound sand'. Additionally, it is extremely unlikely that the Case headquarters would do anything inappropriately to their own products to make them less collectible or fall below acceptable industry standards for the time frame of the original manufacturing date.

In summary, I would love to be a fly on the wall listening to the conversation between Case management and the author(s) of the above or similar narratives.

mdp

[mdpmedia1]

To avoid being hypocritical here is some supporting evidence that came back with the repaired knife:

[Mumbleypeg]

Case’s Repair does great work. I’m very familiar with them and their workmanship is outstanding. However they do not restore older knives to their original vintage state, as they do not keep old period-correct parts in stock. From a mechanical standpoint I’m sure your knife is as near flawless as could be expected. Had you asked Case to restore the knife using period-correct materials they likely would have advised that they are unable to do so. It’s also possible they would tell you they don’t know what you’re referring to - after all, they’re in the business of making knives, not collecting them.

What Wayne has told you is correct. The jigging pattern of the bone on your repaired knife is not correct for the time period which corresponds to the stamp on the knife blade -1965-69. You can readily see the differences in your pictures. That difference will likely deter a knowledgeable collector from paying full value for the knife, and reduce its value substantially. If you should decide to sell the knife, having the documentation showing it was repaired by Case certainly will help but it’s not going to significantly increase the diminished value, if at all. BTW if you can find a copy, Collecting Case Knives by Steve Pfeiffer has a chapter about various handle materials, different jigging patterns and colors of dyes used on bone, the time periods in which they were used, etc. There are recognizable differences.

I’m sure this is not what you hoped for. I may be presumptuous but my impression is that you’re a knife novice, or an opportunist looking to make money from flipping the knife. There’s nothing wrong with that. However there were other, better choices for restoring a vintage knife than having it repaired with current-production parts. A veteran collector would have known and could have given you such advice had you asked. I’m sorry you had to experience such a hard lesson and hope you don’t take the advice given here in the wrong way. No one enjoys seeing you experience this, nor seeing a collectable knife have its value diminished.

Ken

[btrwtr]

@ btrwtr

You have succeeded in taking a collectible knife and adulterating to the point that a knowlegable collector would not entertain buying it. Looks like the blade you had was put in a different and much newer frame. The bone on the knife is completely incorrect for a USA stamped knife blade. The newer shield is not correct for the knife. The handle pins also are not correct. The knife now borders on what I would consider a Frankenknife or counterfeit.

Placing a better handle patch on the original frame would have at least kept the knife real and collectible.

I am far from being a troll and will never hesitate to speak my mind on any seemingly uninformed comments lacking supporting evidence. That's what the 1st Amendment promotes: peaceful free speech for both you and me.

With that small reminder I would suggest that before expressing negative comments about any major type of repair it would seem reasonable to first ask who or what organization actually performed the corrective measures. I personally did not do anything to this knife other than request that it be fixed to a more acceptable specimen.

I sincerely felt that the damage resulted from less than sturdy scale material not holding up against reasonable external forces. I placed my thoughts in a letter to the Case factory. They in turn agreed with me and did 'free of charge' perform all of the work that you now see. I love the work that they did and know that this knife will now fetch much more $ in its current condition compared to the original state.

I know that I would have strong reservations calling up the Case factory and stating the above narrative. From my point of view Case would probably tell anyone writing like this to 'pound sand'. Additionally, it is extremely unlikely that the Case headquarters would do anything inappropriately to their own products to make them less collectible or fall below acceptable industry standards for the time frame of the original manufacturing date.

In summary, I would love to be a fly on the wall listening to the conversation between Case management and the author(s) of the above or similar narratives.

mdp

It seems you have once again come here to teach us all something. First it was your surprise, knife in disguise game and now your value enhancing repair. If you are happy with what has been done that is all that matters but don't come here, PM solicit me and expect me to give you anything less than my honest opinion. I don't care who did the work on the knife and I stand by every word I printed. I would be willing to discuss this with Case or anyone else. The knife now is what it is, an older USA 61111 1/2 blade with brand spanking new clothes.

[edge213]

If you have to keep repeating that you're not a troll...............well...

[Mumbleypeg]

FWIW I found this ebay auction which, although it is for a different pattern, exemplified exactly the situation described in this thread, and the situation of the OP. https://www.ebay.com/itm/313844878892?h ... Swu8Zh7Gt8 Note the wording on the Case Repair center’s invoice from 2012 stating repairs to be done with 2012 parts even though the knife is from 1970. The knife, being 64047PU ten dot 1970 in used but excellent condition, in my experience should sell for at least $130-$150. If mint and being a 1970 ten dots knife it might bring $200+. But given its handle covers and shield not being period correct for the knife, and even though repaired by Case, it sold at auction for $81.

Ken

Description and pictures from the sellers listing (the emphasis is mine):

Made in USA Case knife 64047 P 4 blade knife with punch. Has 10 dots and was made in 1970. This is a knife from my own collection, so I know it's history. At some point in the mid 1990's I bought this knife at a knife show. It had a broken handle on one side. I looked for handles for years. Then in 2012 I sent the knife back to the Case factory and paid them to replace the handles. If you know Case knives, then you also know this is not 1970's bone on this knife and likely you also know this should have a shield with pins and not a glue in. You can't fault the workmanship done at the factory. The knife is 100% genuine Case just not all original to the knife. All blades have been sharpened. Solid knife, blades are tight, good snap. About 3 7/8" long. Go behind me and count the dots to be sure.

[mdpmedia1]

From the outset my inclination to keep this knife in my collection has been my most likely goal: at least until I become tired of looking at it.

@ Mumbleypeg

The professionally structured comments and research time supporting them seen in your couple of posts have indeed been noted and will serve as a lesson well learned.

With all due respect to the participants of this thread I hope that all interested individuals can likewise find some merit in all aspects of your display.

[btrwtr]

From the outset my inclination to keep this knife in my collection has been my most likely goal: at least until I become tired of looking at it.

@ Mumbleypeg

The professionally structured comments and research time supporting them seen in your couple of posts have indeed been noted and will serve as a lesson well learned.

With all due respect to the participants of this thread I hope that all interested individuals can likewise find some merit in all aspects of your display.

You started this thread in hope of getting a price so you could flip the knife and quoting you here,

"In the example of this thread I still am unclear of what % this crack would degrade it from the retail price for this knife. I would like to sell this thing but 1st need to know a reasonable figure to post for potential buyers to make offers on.."

I feel you disrespected this forum by asking for opinions on a knife without being honest about what the knife was. I also feel you disrespected me by quoting "wouldn't have much interest" as my reply to what you had originally imparted about the knife. I PM'd you and asked you what you meant by that qoute and received no response. In that PM I also told you what avenues you had as far as repair. This is what I told you.

The repair on the knife is somewhat of an eyesore in my opinion. Given that, as I said in my post the blade and stamp do have more value than a standard 6111 1/2 stamped USA blade. Your knife would be a prime candidate to have the blade removed and placed in an sound frame without any handle cracks or repairs. Oddly most of the good 61111 1/2 knives I have seen did have the stunning red color to the handles as your knife does. These knives are not hard to work on as far as switching blades out is concerned. I would think that finding a suitable donor frame with good red handles could be a bit of a chore, time consuming and expensive. It would also adulterate the knife in that it would no longer be honest. A competent repaiman could do a far less conspicuous repair that would make the knife more presentable. If the knife were mine I would choose the option of a better repair as the knife could then still be presented honestly as opposed to putting the blade in another frame. Price guides are mostly hogwash.

You did read this PM but gave no reply.

I saw your addition of the newly repaired knife pictures but did not reply because I really did not have anything good to say about what had been done to the knife. On Friday 2/4 I received this PM from you,

Thanks for an honest opinion.

I suggest that you review the original thread for postings (to be done by 2/5/22 or sooner) of a complete makeover. This has been made possible by a totally trustworthy and reliable source that would undoubtedly confirm the authenticity of this example.

mdp

At that time I responded to your PM by printing the exact text I posted here in this thead concerning the repair work. You didn't like my honest and factual response and chose to further disrespect me with your "pound sand" post.

Now you go even further and disrespect this forum in saying,

From the outset my inclination to keep this knife in my collection has been my most likely goal: at least until I become tired of looking at it.

Which is nothing short of a lie.

All in all I'd like to say that I have no use for you and your deceptive, disrespectful ways.

[mdpmedia1]

…I have no use for you.

At this point, I feel that the mods should step in and ask anyone with these type of comments to cease and desist.

They don’t add anything constructive to the main theme of this thread. And I really don’t want to get into a tit for tat wasting everyone’s time.

I will, however, express my thanks for the above comments since I’m sure they are genuine and came from your heart.

IMO

[bestgear]

I feel that the mods should step in and ask anyone with these types of comments to cease and desist

Thank you for your thoughts .... we have been monitoring this thread closely and making sure (as we always do) that the terms of all AAPK members are being adhered to. For quick reference, they can be found here: ucp.php?mode=terms

How, when and if actions are taken by the moderators will follow the same standard that has always been followed .... but your thoughts on the matter are always welcome.

As a side-note on the thread, you baited and switched the forum and poked Wayne both publicly and privately which was the reason behind our monitoring of this thread (which you started). The level of chatter in this thread has never reached the point of locking this thread .... and I hope it never does.

Lastly, if you're going to quote someone, don't sound-bite the quote to fit your commentary .... What Wayne said was "I have no use for you and your deceptive, disrespectful ways." .... Please note where the period was, it's your "ways" that Wayne was focusing on, and not "you", per se.

[mdpmedia1]

Thanks Tom for the clarification.

I do hope that we all now can move on from here and add something positive to this thread. This is the reason that we all are here anyway; learning from people who are more experienced is the name of the game…

[Jdub]

I think you absolutely ruined the knife by putting those new handles on it. They stick out like a sore thumb. You should have left it as is . If case had any idea as to what they were doing and new the value of that knife before that put the new handles on it
Then they would have never put them on it. Absolutely ruined the knife. No questions asked. I don’t think it would even be worth $75 now??

[gsmith7158]

On a positive note it looks like it will make an excellent user now and quite the conversation piece. Definitely a lesson learned in how not to proceed with a rare collectable repair.

[1967redrider]

In defense of Case (or anyone doing knife repairs), you're not going to find 50 year old bone or parts just sitting around waiting for someone to ask about a repair. I feel Case did what they were asked to do, just like someone doing knife repairs would do. I wish I had a pile of old Rogers jigged green bone laying around . . .