Schrade Contract Knives

[muskrat man]

Man Charlie..............................

Love that capped coke bottle-balloon-doctors-jack pattern. That is sweet! Charlie...............the handle wraps around from the center spring pin down?

I'd like to get Reese to make one of those!

Gary, the bone doesn't wrap around the backspring, but it has a nice oval cross section, fat in the center of the handle, and slim at the edges.
The bone for the handles on most knives starts as a fairly flat piece of jigged bone. This one must have started as almost a half cylinder or third of a cylinder. The jigging goes right around almost to the liners.

perhaps they were fit and hafted then jigged afterwards whilst on the knife

[upnorth]

Man Charlie..............................

Love that capped coke bottle-balloon-doctors-jack pattern. That is sweet! Charlie...............the handle wraps around from the center spring pin down?

I'd like to get Reese to make one of those!

Gary, the bone doesn't wrap around the backspring, but it has a nice oval cross section, fat in the center of the handle, and slim at the edges.
The bone for the handles on most knives starts as a fairly flat piece of jigged bone. This one must have started as almost a half cylinder or third of a cylinder. The jigging goes right around almost to the liners.

perhaps they were fit and hafted then jigged afterwards whilst on the knife

Could be, Kaleb!!
You'd know better than me if it's possible !

[upnorth]

This came from a display board! My guess is, it was made in the late 1930s.
By 1942, A. Field was out of business, probably because of WWII.
If it were stamped Schrade Cut Co, it would be an;
1153 1/2 SHACKLE
3 3/8" long, shackle missing or never installed.

[upnorth]

I think this was made by Schrade!!?? Can anyone verify it??

[orvet]

It looks Schrade from the general shape.
Can you give us the length?

Nice looking KK by BTW!

Dale

[upnorth]

It's 2-7/8" Dale.

[orvet]

That is the same size as a little Ulster jack.
More research needed!

Dale

[Sauconian]

Send it to me Charlie, and I will compare it very carefully with a little Ulster jack.

Fran

[thawk]

I think this was made by Schrade!!?? Can anyone verify it??

Could someone identify this one too? It has always baffled me. Looks to be from the same era with the translucent lemon drop handles, but it does not jive with any Schrade or Ulsters I've seen.





This little whittler/stockman is 3 1/8". Nice blade selection. Charlie, does the little mini trapper have a thin white spacer in between the handle and the frame?

[Paul M]

Here's what I have for comparison. A Schrade Walden 272 early 70's Vintage with a KK same as Charlie's knife in question with Jigged black- and a 50's vintage Schrade Walden 810 with very similar scales. To me this KK looks like a Schrade. Fran's knife shares some DNA also.

[upnorth]

It looks a lot like all the similar Peanut knives were made on Ulster tooling; Fran's, Paul's and mine. It would be nice to have them all side by side though.
The handles are translucent, or "lemon drop", but no white liners on mine Paul!.

[orvet]

I think this was made by Schrade!!?? Can anyone verify it??

Charlie,
I think your KK is an Ulster.
It reminds me of the 183Y Ulster.
2-7/8" right?

What do you think?

Dale

[Paul M]

Here's Charlie's and Fran's next to each other for comparison. Similar frame but the KK is much more refined

[Paul M]

I think these 2 knives share the same level of craftsmanship- the way the swedges are executed, the jigging pattern and blade kicks. I don't see the same degree of craftsmanship on any of the similar style Ulsters yet. Don't know if it has to do with older Vs newer ie 50's to 60's. I have a long way to go to consider myself a minor expert but I have to go with my gut (which is big) on this. I say Schrade made

[orvet]

Here's Charlie's and Fran's next to each other for comparison. Similar frame but the KK is much more refined

Paul,
I am not trying to put you on the spot, but how do you define "refined?"
What features are more refined on the KK than the Ulster?

Looking at them side by side, the swedge is different, & I would agree that the swedge on the KK is more appealing to my eye at least.

However, I think the Ulster has other refinements not found on the KK.
1- High polished blades. The polishing takes a lot more time than the emery finish.
2- Spun pins as opposed to flush ground. Spinning a pin is considerably more work than a flush ground peened pin.
3- The bolsters of the Ulster appear to be more highly polished than the KK.

Setting aside the question of refinements for the moment, let’s look at a few facts & do some brainstorming & see if we can solve this in the forum,
because I can assure you I DO NOT know the answer to the question "who made the Keen Kutter?"

1) The KK is a serpentine jack pattern, 2-7/8” closed, with a swedge ground clip master blade.
2) We know that Ulster makes such a knife. We have 3 examples shown in this thread. We can probably assume that they were not rare.
3) Schrade made three knives that were 2-7/8” serpentine jack patterns;
a. Open Stock pattern #272, made from 1953 thru 1979.
b. The 72OT, 2 blade serpentine jack, made from 1986 thru 1996.
c. The 12OT, single blade serpentine jack, made from 1991 thru 2004.

I think it is safe to assume the KK is probably made prior to 1986, and therefore would not be based on the 72OT or the 12OT.


I tend to agree with you that Ulster may not have made this knife, and Schrade may have indeed made it.
However, I would first like to compare the KK with a 272 Schrade.

I do not have a 272, Larry Vickery does not have one posted on his web site, http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/

Does anyone have a Schrade 272 that they can post a picture of?

Thanks,
Dale

PS- It may turn out that Ulster made the 272, at least in the earlier years.
Or Schrade made the Ulster & the KK, or Camillus may have made all of them!

I love a good knife mystery!

[Sauconian]

Actually my Ulster ( a 183P ) has the same saber ground master as the KK, it just didn't show well in my old photo. The biggest difference beween the two is that the swedge is carried back a little more on the KK. Tangs are about the same shape on both knifes, both blades. The pen blade of the Ulster is slimmer than the KK. The Ulster is highly polished all the way around. The pins are not spun, but peened and polished. It has a nail nick in the frame for the pen blade only.

If the Ulster had jigged bone instead of ( the still in perfect condition ) MOTS, it would be a very desirable knife.

The Ulster in hand looked like a slimmer frame than the picture of the KK, but seeing them side by side in Paul's photo they look the same. Two truths here. Charlies assertion that both knives must be in hand for an accurate comparison, and that the camera will make you fat.

Fran

[Paul M]

Dale,
What I mean by refined is the look is more graceful to my eye, the shape of the blade and the fine swedge that follows that line so precisely. I sometimes do not use the correct words that's why I take pictures for a living. I do have a Schrade Walden 272 that is the top knife in an earlier
post on this page or previous page. If I get a chance tomorrow I will photograph it with my Keen Kutter and post it.

[orvet]

Sorry Paul,
I was so focused on the Ulster I wasn't looking at the Schrade.

I look forward to seeing your new pics.

Dale

[ea42]

I don't really think it's a matter of which company made them, I believe they were all made by Schrade, or I should say IKC. Ulster was merged with Schrade in 1941, and the Keen Kutter trademark was taken over by Imperial/Schrade in around 1960. Another thing I've noticed is that a lot of the Imperial knives of the sixties and seventies have that wide cut long pull, so knives witrh that particular blade may well have been made by Imperial, or a combination of Imperial and Schrade. Whoever had a hand in their construction, I believe they all share some DNA.

Eric

[upnorth]

So it seems like we are looking at differences in tooling.
I think if we look at enough of them, a pattern will emerge.
I forgot I had this Schrade! I was going to send it back because of the bone crack, and it rode around in my glovebox for a while, but it's too long ago now. Looks like I own it.
Here it is with the KK. As you can see it's a Schrade Cut co.

[tmwsiy]

does the Keen Kutter have a relief cut into the handle for the pen blade like the 272s?

[tmwsiy]

So it seems like we are looking at differences in tooling.
I think if we look at enough of them, a pattern will emerge.
I forgot I had this Schrade! I was going to send it back because of the bone crack, and it rode around in my glovebox for a while, but it's too long ago now. Looks like I own it.
Here it is with the KK. As you can see it's a Schrade Cut co.

I like the flat grind on the cut co

[upnorth]

No relief cut in the yellow one, tmwsiy. Doesn't look like Paul's black one has one either.

[tmwsiy]

really awful pic of my 272.

[ea42]

Nice one tmwsyi! There's that wide bull again. I'm beginning to think it was a Schrade trait as well, as I've seen it on a number of the pseudo peachseed knives as well. Maybe I'm just going bug-eyed .

Dale, I was wondering about a Camillus connection as well, although Charlies sweet little Cut.Co definitely wasn't connected. I don't think there was any cooperation between the two companies until after Mr Kastor's death. The lack of a cutout is puzzling on a few of the knives, I wonder why some have it and some don't, unless the clips were different enough that the pen had to sit lower in order to reach the nick on the large blade.

Eric