ebay shills

[TM]

Hey guys - I recently registered over at ebay and decided to try it out. I've always watched items, but have never bought or sold anything there.

I got outbid on all 3 of the auctions I tried to win. So, being the naturally skeptical person I am, I started wondering how big of a problem ebay has with shills.

Whats your opinions - do you regular ebay users notice or suspect a lot of shill bidding?

[Redrummd]

I see very little evidence of this as it can really backfire on the seller. If they are using a shill and outbid the real bidders they still have to pay the fees.

Evidence I have seen is a 2nd chance offer soon after the auction closes on a one of a kind item. i never take them as I know it was a shill bid and they can eat the fees before I take the item....

[jonet143]

might not be shill bidding. maybe someone else wanted them more than you! if you are suspicious, check the winners feedback against past auctions from that particular seller. i have matched up some on a couple of the bad sellers that have been discussed before. there is plenty of shill bidding on ebay, as their purpose is to drive the sell price without winning the auction

[msteele6]

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I don't worry about shill bidding. Shill bidding is really only effective if you get into a bidding war. I always find it best to decide well beforehand exactly what I will pay for a knife, wait for the very last second, and place my bid. Some people call it sniping.

Since many people use exactly the same tactic, most of the time you are going to lose an item in the very last seconds. Generally I would say those aren't shills, simply snipers.

If you can't sit around waiting for the exact end of an auction, your best bet is simply to put in your maximum bid and hope for the best, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The problem with that is someone will put in a bid, see that they didn't win, then say "Well, maybe one more bid." and so on until they beat you out by $1. If you think about that, the bidder probably would have lost the bid if you had bid over him at the last second because he wouldn't have had time to change his bid.

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[remington collector]

I see very little shill bidding going on over there. There are a couple sellers using different ids that participate in that knid of activity. If you search these forums you could probably find there id's and there aka id's. I like to visit local flea markets, pawn shops, knife shows, etc, but by far and large most of my knives came from Ebay- I've bought over 800 or so and have never lost my money yet. Sometimes I'll take a chance on a knife with lousy pictures and be pleasantly suprised. .

[philco]

I don't think shill bidding is uncommon at all. If you check the bidding history on a lot of the knife bidders, you will start to see a pattern where some of the same bidders have all their bid history with only one seller. Now, if it is an honest auction, what are the odds of that?
You may say, well he just likes the knives that seller has for sale. But do any of you buy from only one seller on ebay? I think it is probably most common among those sellers who are selling counterfeit knives, because a crook will get you any way he can. But it is certainly not limited to the counterfeiters.
As msteel6 said, it is important to decide what you are willing to pay for a knife and stick to the limit you set and not get caught up in the competition of the bidding process. If you will do that, you are much less likely to be taken for a ride by a shill bidder.

Phil

[Absintheur]

I don't think there are that many shills there, I do think there is a lot of sniping. I know because I do it myself...many times it is the only way to win an auction.

When I see an item I want I add it to my watch list but don't bid on it. I watch it until just a few minutes before the auction ends and if the price is still under what I am will to pay then I will bid the maximum I am willing to pay in the last few seconds of the auction (this is known as sniping). If I bid high enough then I will when but sometimes someone else has done the same and the items is worth more to them than it is to me. Other times a bidder has already place a higher maximum bid than I did and e-bay automatically bids for them. Many don't understand how this works and think it is shill bidding but it isn't. It isn't unusual if you check the bid history after an auction ends to see 4-5 bids in the last few seconds.

item has a starting bid of 20
you place a maximum bid of 30
item shows it has a bid of 20 now
second bidder makes a bid of 22
ebay automatically raises your bid to 23 with you having to do anything.

Some bidders will make very high max bids on items they really want, even well above actual value hoping no one will bid more than an item is worth...it can backfire on you tho. I never worry if I get outbid because I already bid the most I was willing to pay.

Other auction sites use live bidding, great for the seller but tougher for the buyer as it prevent sniping. On gunbroker.com for example any bud in the last 5 minutes extends the auction by 15 minutes. This prevents last second sniping and allows the seller to get the max for his item.

[TM]

I'm totally in agreement that you have to decide beforehand what you want to pay

2 of those auctions I mentioned losing maxed out my limit before they were over and I just quit bidding. I don't really know if there was any bogus bids placed or not - just was wondering more than anything.

One thing I noticed was on the third item I had placed a max. bid that kept me in the lead for most of the auction without coming close to my max amt. Then in the last few hours, someone who had not previously bid ends up beating me by a couple of bucks. After the auction closed, the same item (or an exact duplicate) from the same seller went up for auction again right away.

If the seller is able to see what your potential max bid is, seems like it would be easy for him to get a shill to bid just past your max in hopes that you will respond by kickin' it up one last time.

So I'm wondering, from a strategy standpoint, is it better not to place a max bid too early in the auction

[msteele6]

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I've never sold anything on Ebay but I don't believe that the seller can see your maximum. It would be interesting to see from someone who has sold something whether this is true.

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[jonet143]

no one but you knows your max bid. alot of bidders use a service that places their bid in the last 3 seconds. even if you are high bidder, a sniping service will beat you with a higher bid.

[philco]

no one but you knows your max bid. alot of bidders use a service that places their bid in the last 3 seconds. even if you are high bidder, a sniping service will beat you with a higher bid.

Johnny,
If I understand you correctly, the situation you are describing above would take place when another person is legitimately bidding against you on an item. That would not be something done by the seller, because he would end up stuck with the item he is attempting to sell.

Am I understanding that part correctly?

Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you say "even if you are high bidder, a sniping service will beat you with a higher bid."
Does that mean that if I bid $200 and you arrange a snipe for $195 that the sniping service would still beat out my $200 bid? If so, who pays for that extra five bucks above the bid you authorized?
One more question; what do these services charge and how do I get in touch with them?

Phil

[jonet143]

Johnny,
If I understand you correctly, the situation you are describing above would take place when another person is legitimately bidding against you on an item. That would not be something done by the seller, because he would end up stuck with the item he is attempting to sell.

Am I understanding that part correctly

yes

Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you say "even if you are high bidder, a sniping service will beat you with a higher bid."
Does that mean that if I bid $200 and you arrange a snipe for $195 that the sniping service would still beat out my $200 bid? If so, who pays for that extra five bucks above the bid you authorized

no, his snipe bid would have to be higher than your final bid.
One more question; what do these services charge and how do I get in touch with them?

don't use em, but several on our site do and can direct you.

[philco]

Thanks Johnny.
I was joking about contacting them.
I spend too much on ebay already.

Phil

[sunburst]

Ok, ok...I can see that none of you have bid against Hukk over the years...

The only way to play in the game of ebay is to have a good snipe program that keeps you in the game for those future knife purchases...

http://www.auctionsentry.com/

Good luck,

Sunburst

[Hukk]

Ok, ok...I can see that none of you have bid against Hukk over the years...
The only way to play in the game of ebay is to have a good snipe program that keeps you in the game for those future knife purchases...
http://www.auctionsentry.com/
Good luck,
Sunburst

DANG, we cost each other some serious cash over the years! I remember those Wendell Carson knives - that I lost. YEAH, Sunburst told me about Auction Sentry AFTER he WON! It works!

[jonet143]

this is gonna get expensive! as a seller, i love snipe programs.

[knucklehead]

I've used ebay for several years now on buying knives and there is 1 thing that I've learned....in time, that particular knife or 1 similar (or better) will come up for bid again. Never fails. May be sooner, maybe later. Some (or similar) that I've bidded on and lost, I now own. Must be like a hungry vulture...patience. Ear to the rail....

[TM]

knucklehead,

I think I'm gonna' practice my snipe skills tonight

[Hukk]

I pretty much learned to put my eBay maximum in - which is less than other places and leave enough time for other snipers - If I win OK, if I lose OK. The main attraction to me is that I do not have to sit at my computer and...................................WAIT!

[W5RWU]

Sniping is the next best thing to being there!!!
And if anyone wants shill bid my auctions you are more then welcome too!!


Ebay in the past few months has been tough on the seller, it is a buyer market
W5rwu - iluvtoohunt

[Mossdancer]

I don't care if there are shills, that being said I don't think there are that many. Unless it is a cheapo charlie knife I do not snipe with a cheapo price. If it is a knife that I feel I have to have my method is do a lot of research, ask for clearly defined photos(if you cant read the knife don't bid in my opinion). If you don't have a fast internet connection get one. You will probably pay for it with two or three purchases using gigantic photos. When I put in my snipe price it is for the amount that I believe the knife is worth, not what I would like to capture it for. I find that if I do it this way I generally get the knife at far less than my snipe. If it is something you really want you have to be willing to pay the price. Also, ignore the story as they are generally BS. If you have to, get a for pay expert to appraise the knife for you.
moss