Schrade N.Y. U.S.A. 881...W?

[SolWarrior]

Hello: Well, here I am again with yet more questions. However, these questions are after the fact. Earlier today I bid on and won a Schrade 881W with no W on the tang stamp. Apparently this is normal for a white Senior Stockman, which actually has beige or bone colored delrin handles. Ain't she Sweet!?!

My questions are how common is this knife? And, also, what would some of you guys who usually sell knives, price it at?

This knife comes with the paperwork and a plastic bag but no tube or box and was listed as "Mint" and on the description it said "New Old Stock Scharade white 3 blade in perfect condition." There were two other ones sold at a higher price by a well known eBayer with the handle - sportcolbs. One didn't have any paperwork or bag and the other did but no tube or box either. So, I'm guessing that these knives didn't come with a tube or box? As usual, any information would be very much appreciated. Thanks!

[kootenay joe]

It's a good knife.
"Schrade/N.Y. U.S.A." is a marking from ~ 1973 to late ? 1970's. Before this it was "Schrade Walden" and after "Schrade/U.S.A."
Off white Delrin was used many times for 'scrimshaw' handle knives.
Your knife could be from the 1970's and did not get 'scrimshawed'.
Or the knife could have been assembled in 2004 as a so called "End of Days" knife (EOD) when existing parts were assembled into knives.
Schrade did use an off white Micarta for a very few knives, but i think yours is Delrin.
kj

[treefarmer]

SolWarrior,
Read your post the other evening and realized somewhere in my accumulation I have an 881 Y. It handles are yellow. That is an ideal knife along with all the other large stockman knives . If I run across mine and there is a different stamp, (other than the "Y") I'll try and post it for comparison.
Treefarmer

[SolWarrior]

Hello, Kj & Treefarmer I at least know now that it's not one of those Taylor brand knives that, in my opinion, are meant to deceive buyers in search of original Schrade and Schrade Walden knives. The thought didn't cross my mind until I read your comments that it might be an EOD knife, put together with existing parts. The 881 on the blade with the OT type body would appear to point to that...but that's just MHO. Maybe Orvet would know for sure? Hope he reads this and provides some of his knowledge on this. Thanks guys!

[orvet]

The first listing I have found for 881Y is in the 1957 catalog. The pattern last appears in the 1986 catalog. As Roland pointed out, the Schrade Walden tang stamp was discontinued in mid 1973 so yours would’ve been made 1973 up to 1986.

I’m pretty sure it is not an end of days or one of the scrimshaw series that avoided being stamped. The scrimshaw series were number differently; they had a three digit number (most in the 500s) with the suffix of SC stamped on the blades. Your knife is stamped like any other 881 pattern with just the pattern number and no suffix behind it. I know some of the yellow handled Open Stock patterns did have a Y suffix behind the pattern number. I have a 293Y in my collection. Why did they use a suffix on some patterns and not on others? I have no idea!

The 881 pattern from the Open Stock series is a forerunner of the 8OT. Both patterns are built on the same frame and parts from the same manufacturing era are generally interchangeable.

And you might ask why would they produce the 881, the 8OT and the 885UH, which are all essentially the same knife? There were also the scrimshaw series, which were built on the same frame also.
The only answer I can think of is marketing. People to like choices and like to have something a little bit different than someone else and many people may carry variations of the same pattern. We certainly know many people collect variations of the same pattern.

[kootenay joe]

Dale, to me the OP handles do not look like the yellow Delrin that is given the "Y" after the pattern number.
They look to be the off-white that was used for handle 'scrimshaw' knives.
Was there ever a run of knives just like the O.P. knife ? i.e. an 881 (or 8OT) with these off white handles left plain, no scrimshaw, no markings ?
kj

[tongueriver]

I am with Roland in all his comments so far. I don't think they ever made such a thing as an 881 W as such or ever tang-stamped one that way. The OP knife is just an ordinary 881 with blank 'scrim' handles added. Probably EOD, in my view (and no, EOD does not stand for "easy opener dagger).

[Tsar Bomba]

There were two other ones sold at a higher price by a well known eBayer with the handle - sportcolbs.

Of course there were and of course the price was higher.

The pictured knife is a really nice example of Schrade's later work. EOD or not, it's a fine stockman.

[orvet]

Dale, to me the OP handles do not look like the yellow Delrin that is given the "Y" after the pattern number.
They look to be the off-white that was used for handle 'scrimshaw' knives.
Was there ever a run of knives just like the O.P. knife ? i.e. an 881 (or 8OT) with these off white handles left plain, no scrimshaw, no markings ?
kj

Roland, if there was such a run I am unaware of it. They certainly did not appear in the catalogs.

It could’ve been an EOD knife, but usually we see aother similar knives if they were made at the End Of Days. The single blade 97OT with the Uncle Henry Staglon handles is an excellent example of an EOD pattern. The 97OT single blade was a pretty common knife on eBay nine or 10 years ago.

Could these white handles been a small experimental batch? That is definitely within the realm of possibility.
I think it is equally possible that during the assembly of 881s they ran short of the normal Delrin handles. Perhaps they substituted a few dozen, even a few hundred of the white handles in order to meet the production schedule.

After all this is Schrade we are talking about.
Nothing is carved in stone and only a few things are etched in Jell-O!


The bottom line is we are speculating 12 years after the Schrade factory closed. We are all more or less guessing in the dark as to why a certain knife exists when it didn’t exist in the Schrade catalogs. Between online examples and examples I’ve seen in person I’ve probably seen well over 100 Schrade knives that should not exist. I think there are some things that we will never be able to explain about Schrade.

[kootenay joe]

Dale i quite agree with your entire post. It is interesting to speculate because it is an opportunity to learn something from each other. And then time comes to end speculation and move on.
Basic thing about O.P. knife is: Well made Schrade USA Senior Stockman knife with properly tempered 1095 steel blades. It's a good knife and one that could be a lifetime daily EDC.
I'm going to watch for more of these on the bay, maybe i will get lucky too.
kj

[SolWarrior]

Great feedback from Orvet, KJ and Tongueriver...and you too Tsar Bomba. Thanks for the thumbs up, buddy. Much appreciated interesting points that brought up more questions. Now that I have the OP knife in hand I noticed that it's better quality than this 8OT -- which I believe was made closer to 2004 -- but not quite as good as the Schrade Walden 881 so, that leads me to believe that it may have been made during the 70's. I don't know if any of you have experienced the level of quality drop as time grew closer to Schrade closing its door or if it's my imagination but it sure seems like it, both in mechanics and appearance. Here are a few pictures of the knife and the two I compared it with. Thanks again

Oh, and KJ, I'll help keep an eye out for one and let you know if or when I see it.

[orvet]

In general Felix I agree with your assessment of declining quality towards the end of Schrade, at least where the regular production knives are concerned, such as the few remaining open stock knives in the Old Timers & Uncle Henrys. In other places in their product line I think Schrade was trying to update their quality and designs.

Their collaboration with custom makers like D’Alton Holder, Steve Jernigan, Richard Rogers, Van Barnett, Joe Kious, Lake & Walker indicates to me a company that is trying to upgrade both their products and their image.

In the last four years of their existence Schrade expanded their product line was some real innovative new offerings; Tough Grip multi tool with the Vise Grip pliers is one of my favorite multi-tools in the Tough Tool is also a great design. The Spitfire LTD is not only an innovative design in a time when smaller knives were starting to become popular but it also makes use of a much higher end steel, (ATS-34), than their production knives. Their Nitro, Silhouette & Viper lines were a bold step in a new direction. Unfortunately my favorite design, the Black Ice, apparently never reached production.

In 2002 Schrade introduced to products that I think were really outside of the box, the Navitool and the i-Quip. Both were sort of survival multi-tools. If it had been introduced 8 or 10 years later the i-Quip would probably have had GPS in it. I think these were both examples of creative, outside-the-box type thinking.

For the most part I think these new product lines from Schrade were very high quality, (there were also some less expensive new lines), and a step in the right direction in the progression of the company.

From 2001 – 2004 I think Schrade was a company in transition, trying to move towards more modern knife designs and yet still take care of their traditional customer. I think finances were working against them and then the entire knife industry took a huge hit in the wake of 911 in the knife ban on airplanes. The common pocketknife that had been a fixture in the pocket of American men for the last hundred years was suddenly banned on airplanes. I think all these factors contributed to the demise of Schrade.

I do agree that the bread-and-butter lines, Old Timer and Uncle Henry and the remaining Open Stock knives had experienced a slow decline in quality over the years.


An even more obvious decline in quality, IMHO, was with Camillus. They held on a little longer than Schrade and the finish of the knives declined dramatically over the years. The TL-29 knives were not ground on the back springs; the back springs, liners and the bottom of the handles were all different lengths. They were not ground flush with one another. But if you look at earlier productions of the TL-29s they were ground flush on the Camillus version of the TL-29 and on the Camco version as well.

[RancherinAz]

I know it's an old thread , but I was kinda curious myself as to one of the OP's questions about what these white Delrin 881's are worth in nice condition .

[RancherinAz]

I can't see this being an EOD's knife . Not with blades stamped 881 and NY . This has to be a knife from the ''70's or early '80's .
I just won a bid on this exact same knife on the bay . It should be here tomorrow or Monday . There's no shield either , so maybe it was meant to be scrimshawed and didn't get it ? The 881 yellow Delrin normally had a nickle silver shield , so why wouldn't white Delrin get the same treatment ? Did they run short of Yellow Delrin and substitute the white to meet production demands , not taking the time to either carve the handles out for the shield or stamp the scrimshaw in it ? I wonder how many or few of them were produced . Is this a true rarity . I paid 31 bucks shipped for mine and feel somewhat fortunate to be getting it .

[philco]

If you can, please post a close up photo of the tang stamp on your newly acquired knife.

[RancherinAz]

If you can, please post a close up photo of the tang stamp on your newly acquired knife.

I haven't recieved it yet supposed to come either Saturday or Monday but it's identical to the one in the OP's post .

Schrade
NY USA
881