Veterans

[Ripster]

We didn't salute warrent officers when I was in, and they were called Mr. or Mrs. although I never met lady warrent officer. Most of the older ones especially didn't like being called sir, they we re offended worse than a NCO if you messed up and called them sir. They'd let know they were working men in a hurry.

Same here Big H !
Sometimes at Campbell on post we kind of had to otherwise no .
Our pilot CWO Jim N . Was adamant ,no saluting, and it was Mr. N .
When I was in the NCO ranks , many would get upset if you said Sir.

[Ridgegrass]

Here's a story. My best pal in the states, PFC Mike Muller from Croton, New York had injured his right pinky finger as a child and couldn't align it with the other fingers. It would stick up like a lady drinking from a teacup when he saluted. We did AIT at Ft. Sill together and were also stationed at Ft. Hood together. I wish I had a nickel for every time some lieutenant jacked him up for his unintentional but ridiculous looking salute. One of those "here it goes again" capers that was always funny but a pain in the butt for Mike. J.O'.

[CamMan21]

Here's a story. My best pal in the states, PFC Mike Muller from Croton, New York had injured his right pinky finger as a child and couldn't align it with the other fingers. It would stick up like a lady drinking from a teacup when he saluted. We did AIT at Ft. Sill together and were also stationed at Ft. Hood together. I wish I had a nickel for every time some lieutenant jacked him up for his unintentional but ridiculous looking salute. One of those "here it goes again" capers that was always funny but a pain in the butt for Mike. J.O'.

For myself....that's what I miss more than anything; all the damn characters you run into. Heard enough BS war stories to tide me over for eternity. But the people...that's what its all about for me.

[Dan In MI]

Navy rank is a tough one but I was around enough Navy to understand it after a while.

I figured out Navy rank quickly. Marine Corps rank, with the exceptions of E-8 and E-9, is easy for me to understand, too. Army and Air Force...not so much.

I can see how Captain can cause some confusion, especially since in the Navy, it doesn't always constitute pay grade.

[Ridgegrass]

CanMan21: I'm with you on that! Not that I don't have great respect others' experiences, just for mine, they stay inside. Guess we're all different, eh?
J.O'.

[CamMan21]

CanMan21: I'm with you on that! Not that I don't have great respect others' experiences, just for mine, they stay inside. Guess we're all different, eh?
J.O'.

I went on a hunting trip last fall and stopped by a campground lodge sort of thing to do my laundry. There was a guy in there insisted on grabbing my ear and telling war story after war story. Problem is he was full of baloney. I didn’t mention military service at all, so I suppose he felt at liberty to say whatever he pleased. He was military, that much I could tell, but probably in some sort of non-combat role. I just let him keep talking the whole while seeming unimpressed, but my BS meter stayed pegged in the red.

I guess that’s two separate issues, one of war stories and one of fake war stories. But I guess it irks me sometimes when people think no one can tell wild exaggerations.

That’s the kind of stuff that annoys the heck out of me.

I’d still like to write a collection of stories, but it would focus on the people and stupid things that happened, not on anything else.

[jerryd6818]

CanMan21: I'm with you on that! Not that I don't have great respect others' experiences, just for mine, they stay inside. Guess we're all different, eh?
J.O'.

I went on a hunting trip last fall and stopped by a campground lodge sort of thing to do my laundry. There was a guy in there insisted on grabbing my ear and telling war story after war story. Problem is he was full of baloney. I didn’t mention military service at all, so I suppose he felt at liberty to say whatever he pleased. He was military, that much I could tell, but probably in some sort of non-combat role. I just let him keep talking the whole while seeming unimpressed, but my BS meter stayed pegged in the red.

I guess that’s two separate issues, one of war stories and one of fake war stories. But I guess it irks me sometimes when people think no one can tell wild exaggerations.

That’s the kind of stuff that annoys the heck out of me.

I’d still like to write a collection of stories, but it would focus on the people and stupid things that happened, not on anything else.

BS'ers annnoy me no end.

[jerryd6818]

Long but well worth the time. No B.S. here.


PARRIS ISLAND, S.C. --
The average age of a United States Marine Corps recruit is 21 years old. When Paul Douglas enlisted in 1942, he left behind his wife, child, and career and reported to Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island at the ripe age of 50.

Even though thousands of visitors have walked the halls of the Douglas Visitor Center, very few know the story of the man behind the namesake, who became the oldest recruit in the history of Parris Island.

Born in 1892, Douglas embarked on a career as an economics professor, teaching at multiple universities across America from 1916-1942. In 1939 Douglas ran for Chicago City Council and won.

By 1942, Douglas had made many acquaintances in high places; namely Frank Knox, an associate he befriended during his tenure at the Chicago Daily News who later became Secretary of the Navy. With a little help from Knox, Douglas enlisted in the United States Marine Corps as a private, five months after the attacks on Pearl Harbor, as the country was plunged into a second world war. Douglas had wanted to see combat and fight for his country, so with his connections in the naval service the Marine Corps became the most logical choice.

Now the 50-year-old famed economist, professor and politician found himself at the command of drill instructors whom he was old enough to have fathered. After completing boot camp, Douglas proudly wrote “I found myself able to take the strenuous boot camp training without asking for a moment's time out and without visiting the sick bay.”

After impressing his command during boot camp, Douglas was assigned to the personnel classification section on Parris Island. With influence from his connections in the Roosevelt administration, three weeks later he passed a test to be promoted to corporal, and one month after that, staff sergeant. Following a recommendation from his commanding officer (and a strong recommendation from his old friend Frank Knox,) Douglas was commissioned as a captain in the Marine Corps, after seven months as an enlisted Marine.

During the battle of Peleliu, while serving as the division adjutant to 3rd Battalion, 7th Marines, Captain Douglas made trips to the front lines to evacuate the wounded and dead men. During one of these trips Douglas saw that the men were in desperate need of flamethrower and rocket launcher ammo. He swiftly returned to the rear and hand-delivered the men the ammo under heavy mortar and small arms fire. For these heroic actions, Douglas would be awarded the Bronze Star medal. Later into the campaign at Peleliu, Douglas came under fire and was hit by a piece of shrapnel, for which he received his first Purple Heart medal.

Douglas went on to serve in the battle of Okinawa, often being remembered by Marines for running around the battlefield with the vigor of a much younger Marine. He was promoted to major during the battle of Okinawa. Pfc. Paul E. Ison stated that it was after the major had pulled his demolition team aside to assist in resupplying ammo to the front lines that he noticed Douglas had been injured.

Douglas had been hit by a machine gun in his left forearm and was evacuated by the men that he had dedicated his life to serving. After being hit, he proceeded to use his uninjured hand to take off his major rank insignia so that he wouldn’t receive special attention.

Ison said, “If I live to be 100 years old I will never forget this scene. There, lying on the ground, bleeding from his wound was a white-haired Marine major. He had been hit by a machine gun bullet. Although he was in pain, he was calm and I have never seen such dignity in a man. He was saying ‘Leave me here. Get the young men out first. I have lived my life. Please let them live theirs.”

Douglas expressed passionate interest in returning early to his men to continue serving on the front lines. He was hospitalized in San Francisco and subsequently moved to Bethesda, Maryland where it took more than 14 months to be dismissed from the hospital and was medically retired from the Marine Corps, only regaining partial use of his left hand.

Noting his unusual bravery, an officer who served under Douglas said “No one could keep the major out of the front lines. He loves his boys and was right in there with them all the time.”

In his command it had been a normal sight to see Douglas waiting in the back of the chow hall line while fellow officers skipped to the front of the line, picking up garbage so that young Marines wouldn’t have to, and anything else he could do to assist the men under him. All accounts of men who served with him said that he was greatly admired by his Marines.

Commenting on the importance of honoring Douglas and his actions through dedicating a building to him, Dr. Stephen Wise, the director of the Parris Island History Museum stated “It’s important to remember Marines who made an impact and influenced the Marine Corps in a positive direction. Douglas was the oldest individual to go through Parris Island, he could have stayed safely on ship and he chose not to; we want people to remember these men and their actions.”

Because of his brave actions under fire and unselfish service he was promoted to lieutenant colonel a year after he retired in January of 1947. After returning to Chicago as a war hero, Douglas won his spot as Illinois state senator in 1949. When running for senator the opposing candidate refused to debate him, so Douglas sat down and debated an empty chair, switching chairs and answering for his opponent. He was noted for his support of Dr. Martin Luther King's civil rights movement and advocating for just treatment of Americans. He served in that position for 18 years until retiring at 74 years of age.

In 1977, Parris Island visitor’s center was named in Douglas’s honor. His wife, Emily Douglas spoke to the tribute Parris Island had bestowed upon her late husband.

“Later in his life many honors came to my husband. But there is none that would have so touched him, made him so astonished as well as thrilled, as having his name associated here at Parris Island.”

Even in public office Douglas continued to advocate for the Marine Corps, and proudly kept the Marine Corps standard displayed in office.

“All of us have standards by which we measure other men. Paul Douglas is one of the finest, bravest and truest men that I have known during my lifetime. It was an honor to have been associated with him, to have shared danger with him and to have observed his nobility of character when he was wounded and asked to be left behind so that younger men might live.”

[KLJ77]

What a GREAT story of a remarkable man and Marine. Thanks for posting this, Jerry. I thoroughly enjoyed reading about the historical events of this man's life. And, to be sure, there is still more about this man that could be told.

I may have been Navy...but a huge "Semper Fi" to this man, and to you, Jerry.

As an aside: With NO intent to overshadow or take away from Lt Colonel Douglas or the story Jerry posted, since we're discussing and remembering "Great Veterans" in this thread, if you have never seen the movie, "Hacksaw Ridge", I highly recommend it. It is the story of Corporal Desmond Doss, an Army Medic who saved 75 men's lives at the Battle of Okinawa. Corporal Doss was the first ever conscientious objector to be awarded the Medal of Honor. He did not want to carry a gun into battle and kill another human being. He was brutally beat and basically disowned by his unit, but the Army allowed him to become a Medic and serve his country. He climbed the ropes of Hacksaw Ridge over 100 times to get to the top and bring wounded men down to the bottom...some of them, the very men who took part in beating and turning their back on him.

These are the kind of historical events and men that should be taught in our schools...even today.

[jerryd6818]

I've seen Hacksaw Ridge. What a powerful film about a man and his accomplishments, that defies description. There are so many acts of heroism over so many wars that never gained notoriety.

[CamMan21]

My uncle, who died in Quang Nam in 1968, was with L 3/7.

[Dan In MI]

That is a great story. Thank you for sharing it, Jerry!

[fergusontd]

CanMan21: I'm with you on that! Not that I don't have great respect others' experiences, just for mine, they stay inside. Guess we're all different, eh?
J.O'.

I went on a hunting trip last fall and stopped by a campground lodge sort of thing to do my laundry. There was a guy in there insisted on grabbing my ear and telling war story after war story. Problem is he was full of baloney. I didn’t mention military service at all, so I suppose he felt at liberty to say whatever he pleased. He was military, that much I could tell, but probably in some sort of non-combat role. I just let him keep talking the whole while seeming unimpressed, but my BS meter stayed pegged in the red.

I guess that’s two separate issues, one of war stories and one of fake war stories. But I guess it irks me sometimes when people think no one can tell wild exaggerations.

That’s the kind of stuff that annoys the heck out of me.

I’d still like to write a collection of stories, but it would focus on the people and stupid things that happened, not on anything else.

BS'ers annnoy me no end.

I Call'em barstool commandos! ftd

[jerryd6818]

Good one Ferg.

[RP187]

First, God Bless all our Veterans.

I served two tours of Vietnam 66-68 my last posting was to the 187th Assault Helicopter Company, War Zone III, Tay Ninh. Served in both slicks and gunships...the UH1C 'Charlie' models call sign 'Rat Pack' (the mean mouse...lol). I made it relatively unscathed, many weren't so fortunate. This photo was taken by me over the Iron Triangle during a gun run.

[RP187]

Speaking of Light Fire Teams, a Loach spotter followed by a loaded for bear Cobra gunship, when I was out on my second op, we were crossing some paddies, walking on the berm and had just past a copse of trees when a Loach came around the trees from our rear, flying just above our heads.

I didn't even know what a Light Fire Team was, but SFC Smyth did and he yelled out for me to take off my head gear, drop my weapon and wave both arms and show my face.

In direct violation of everything, the first five Montagnards in our recon platoon, which always walked point, wore NVA uniforms, pith helmets and carried AK's. That was to give them a moment's head start in the shooting if they ever encountered an actual NVA unit.

Anyway, not far behind the Loach came the Cobra, but we did, with our height, our white faces and empty armed frantic waving succeed in waving him off.

They were in our AO, where they were not supposed to be operating. Don't know if they had just wandered out of their territory or were just lone wolfing around looking for something to kill.

Charlie Noyes

Charlie your 'B' team was very lucky....word hardly ever got down to our hunter killer teams where you guys were roaming. Very familiar with the SF outposts along the 'Bode' border including Bu Dop.

[jerryd6818]

First, God Bless all our Veterans.

I served two tours of Vietnam 66-68 my last posting was to the 187th Assault Helicopter Company, War Zone III, Tay Ninh.

Doggie??

[Dan In MI]

Served in both slicks and gunships...the UH1C 'Charlie' models call sign 'Rat Pack' (the mean mouse...lol).

The UH-1 is the best rotary wing aircraft ever, and no one will convince me otherwise. During my 2006 WESTPAC, the UH-1Ns were the only aircraft that squadron personnel were able to maintain with minimal help from my work-center.

Great photo, too. Regrettably, I never got to fire any gun other than a Beretta 92F of a Mossberg 500 during my service. When I went through boot camp, the recruits didn't even participate in live-fire exercises!

[orvet]

I hope this post is not too long, if you read it I think you'll enjoy it especially if you're a veteran.

I was telling a friend, (also an AAPK member), the story of a member of the greatest generation, whom I met at the VA Hospital in Portland Oregon about 1982 or 1983. I have long ago forgotten the name of this hero but his story lives on in my memory and I think my friend is right it's time to tell his story!
For the sake of this story we will call his name Smitty.

The VA hospital in Portland at this time (circa 1982) had begun a rebuilding program, the majority of the hospital was from1932 with parts of it dating back into the late 1920s. It was far different than it is today. When walking down those wooden corridors of the old hospital very easy to find thank you for your self being in a World War II movie because the hospital itself look like a World War II movie set.
In those days there were two orthopedic surgery wards one for smokers and another for non-smokers. Since I smoked a pipe in those days I always tried to get into the smoking Ward. I would have tried to get in there even if I were a non-smoker because the smokers by and large were far more engaging and sociable than the non-smokers were. I believe the surgery was for my first total left wrist prosthesis (artificial wrist).

The fellow in the bed to my left was Smitty, a US Army veteran from World War II. He was there to have some surgery done on his stump. Smitty was an amputee just below the knee of his left leg. After a day or so of laying in the beds next to one another we had developed a camaraderie, is Veterans often do. It was normal there to discuss the procedures we were in the orthopedic unit to receive. One day I asked him if he minded telling me the story of how he lost his leg. He said not at all. And so began one of the most incredible stories I have heard.

Smitty's company had landed on D-Day, June 6th 1944. He said they had seen a lot of action and had a lot of casualties, as a matter of fact, he and the captain were the only remaining original members his company. The casualties, killed and wounded had been high and every person except the captain and Smitty were replacements to the unit.

Smitty said he didn't know exactly where they were at when he got hit he says we were somewhere in Belgium in the forest and he said it was close to Christmas time. As I recall he said he thought it was right after Christmas. Checking Wikipedia quickly I would guess he was probably somewhere in the Ardennes likely the Battle of the Bulge. He said the area had been see-sawing back and forth between between German and Allied control.

He said somewhere in a clearing, a meadow in the forest, he got hit in his leg with a burst of machine-gun fire which almost completely amputate at the leg except for some skin that was holding the leg attached to his stump. A complete traumatic amputation except for little bit of skin. The captain was instrumental in getting him down into a shell hole where he was protected from mortars, unless of course a shell or mortar landed in the hole with him.

Smitty said the captain looked down at him, after putting a tourniquet on his stump, and with tears in his eyes he said, "You hang on, I'll be back to get you as quick as I can! But I got to go now the Krauts are going to be here real soon."


Smitty said that he was pretty sure he passed out, but didn't know how long he was out. It was getting towards dusk and he said it seemed like about 5  minutes but somebody jump down in the hole with him. He looked at the guy and saw he was a German soldier not an American. He said the German took one look at me and could see I was no immediate threat. So he took his time like a good fighting man and set up his position. He laid a couple of extra magazines and grenades on the shell hole, turned towards Smitty, and pulled his knife from its sheath and moved towards Smitty. He said "I thought to myself well, this is it! He's going to slit my throat!"

Instead this Nazi Soldier spoke to him and said, "Let's see how you're doing buddy, you look a little rough." Smitty said he addressed me in American English, not British English, not with a German accent but with American accent. The German Soldier had been born in the US to parents who were immigrants from Germany. In the early 1930s Germany (read Third Reich), put out a call around the world for sons of Germany to return home and fight for the Fatherland. His German parents had sent him back to Germany to fight for the Fatherland. Smitty said, "This poor ba*t*rd I've been fighting since 1933, almost 11 years. I kind of felt sorry for him."

The German Soldier cut what remained of the skin holding his leg to the stump and he packed the leg in snow, telling Smitty that the surgeons might be able to save it.
Smitty said that that German Soldier attended his tourniquet all night long. He said, "There is no doubt in my mind the man saved my life!"
Along about dawn the next morning the German woke him up and said, "I have to leave now, but your boys will be here real soon. Good luck to you I might think you're going to make it fine!"

Smitty said I could have been a little delirious, but it seemed like only a couple minutes had gone by until the captain jumped down into the shell hole with him.
The captain said; "Thank God you're still alive! Let's get you out of here."

Smitty says they got him on a stretcher and hung him on the wall of a power wagon ambulance. He said they also gave me a shot of morphine and he said "That was the first time I thought think that I might actually live to make it home see my family again." There were three other wounded GIs hanging on the walls in the ambulance as they begin to drive down this road through the forest. Smitty said the line between the Germans and the Allies was see-sawing back and forth. As he was riding along in the ambulance for a while, he said suddenly I heard the driver exclaim "Oh s***" and slam on the brakes. He said they had just been stopped at a German checkpoint. He said; "Two days in a row I have been captured by the Germans!"

He said the Germans direct to the ambulance to the nearest little Belgian Village, to the schoolhouse. For efficiency's sake the school houses were built around the gymnasium with the classrooms on the 4 sides of the gymnasium and the classroom doors opening into the gymnasium. He said they laid me down in gymnasium to wait for surgery. He said they came for me to take me into surgery. Each of the classrooms had become surgical rooms and the German doctors were working on Germans and Americans alike come there was no slighting of anyone when it came to Medical treatment, the Germans greeted everyone like.

Smitty said, they carried me into surgery. I looked at the clock on the wall at the end of the gymnasium. It was above the doors to the outside. The clock said 11: 00 AM and there was a German Soldier standing beneath the clock that in front of the door with his rifle. When they brought me out of surgery, I looked at the door and the clock again. The clock said 5:00 and he said there was an American Soldier standing there guarding the door holding an M1 Garand rifle.

Smutty went on to relate that he had been in surgery for 6 hours and that in that length of time he had been liberated a second time that day from German captivity.

Smitty said from there thay got him out to a hospital ship, and slowly the ship made its way back to the US. He was sent to a military Hospital in Texas, it may even have been Brooke Army Hospital, but I don't recall for sure. While he was there he had a series of surgeries, preparing his stump for a prosthetic leg. By this point he was getting around pretty well by himself in a wheelchair and was recovering as well as could be expected at that point. He said one afternoon he wheeled himself back into the ward where he stayed in the hospital and one of the guys in the ward said, "Hey Smitty, your Kraut buddy was here looking for you."
Smitty said "What are you talkin about? I ain't got no Kraut buddies."

Smitty told me about that time somebody came into the room wearing an orderlies  uniform and you recognized him as the German who was saved his life in Belgium six or eight months before.
The German had been captured and returned to his homeland, the United States. Where he and other american-born German soldiers we're used as Hospital orderlies and Trustees, provided they had no war crime charges against them.

It seems one day when they were taking Smitty to surgery this German orderly had recognized him and ask around until he was able to find where he stayed.

Smitty told me that the American-born POWs we're not allowed to have alcohol as long as they were in custody. Smitty also said; "But as long as I was at that hospital, that guy had all the whiskey he wanted."

[Ripster]

Interesting story Dale, thanks for posting it.
Wonder if they kept in touch . It’s interesting to hear about some of the POW experiences.

[jerryd6818]

Good story. Twas definitely a different time. Thanks for posting it.

[Quick Steel]

Dale, very interesting. I had long forgotten about U.S. Germans fighting against us. Great story.


Jerry, I grew up with Paul Douglas as one of my Senators. While I didn't much care for his politics I have great admiration for his service which I did not know until now.

[royal0014]

Fantastic story Dale, Thanks for sharing.
I hope both those men had long and prosperous lives.

[Dan In MI]

As others have said, a great story from Dale.

[Colonel26]

I’m not a veteran, but I sure thank you all for your service and the sacrifices you have made for me and mine!

Dale, what an amazing story! Just another example that war between nations is never cut and dried when it comes to the individuals who actually have to fight that war.