Kinfolks knife

[CarlM]

I had never heard of this brand until I bought this one. It is a well made knife. The only markings are the Kinfolks stamp on all 3 blades. Does anyone know where these knives are made. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping it's not made in China.
Thanks ,
Carl

[El Lobo]

You know, I just happen to own this one pictured below. I'll show the pile side so you can maybe see the mark on the other two blades.
I feel quite strongly that these are modern reproductions, and were made for the Parkers in the Olbertz factory. However, I suppose they could have been made in China. I've had this one since 2001, I think, a bit before the influx of Chinese made slipjoints...but, you never know. I can only let everyone form their own opinion of why there is no further marking on the knives.

The original company was formed by a couple of the Case boys and Tint Champlin, who were cousins or "Kinfolks." They were in business between 1927 and 1948, according to Houston Price.
Bill

[Hukk]

The company was founded in th USA by three cousins, Tint Champlin, Dean Case, and Russell Case. The three men were related to the Case and Cattaraugus families and Kinfolks became the firms name and Logo. They were in Little Valley, New York from 1926 to 1958. Around 1950 Robeson aquired the Kinfolk trademark. They went out of business in 1958. The Kinfolks line of folders was not extensive, so, pocket knives are rare. The did make a lot of machetes and and sheath knives for WWII. I just happened to have one of my books open to the Kinfolks section when I read this thread.

[El Lobo]

That will teach me to edit anything.
The order makes Hukk look s l o w...but, he wasn't.

Bill

[Hukk]

Parkers and the Bulldog Brand will come out with Prototypes that have no markings and I have a few knives that are real. BUT, they do have a habit of "Dicscovering" batches of old blades that were never used in production. They then assemble the knives to be sold on the market. I wish they would not do that, once dead, leave it be. I have seen these knives in their catalogs and they are marked as such. However, years down the road, I feel that they get mixed in with the Real Deal.

[Hukk]

That will teach me to edit anything.
The order makes Hukk look s l o w...but, he wasn't.

Bill

Great Minds think alike, but, I do feel sssllloooooooowww today

[9ball]

Good morning Folks ,

I own one of the older Kinfolks and you are right about them being hard to find. I am always looking for examples to compare mine too. It is a green bone premium stock about 4 inches closed. The master blade has a pattern number on back, but I cannot remember what it is.
I read someplace that the older Kinfolks folders were made by Case, but I am not postive on that. They did make stuff for WWII also.

Bill, you are right about the Parkers. I also collect Toledo Scales. I have seen a least a hundred of these so far.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Kinfolks-Knife-Tole ... dZViewItem

9ball

[Hukk]

I feel quite strongly that these are modern reproductions, and were made for the Parkers in the Olbertz factory. However, I suppose they could have been made in China. I've had this one since 2001, I think, a bit before the influx of Chinese made slipjoints...but, you never know. I can only let everyone form their own opinion of why there is no further marking on the knives.

If you look closely, the top knife has a Bulldog Brand Crest (common) and the scales look like the Oystershell celluloid, also from Bulldog. It is different than "cracked Ice". The second knife has scales that look like Bulldog's Sapphire celluloid, kinda like Tortoise shell with some blue streaks or patterns in it. It looks like both were made in Solingen, Germany.

[jonet143]

i thought the country of origin had to be on the knife.

johnnie

[El Lobo]

Excellent call on the shield Hukk.....

Bill

[Hukk]

i thought the country of origin had to be on the knife.

johnnie

I do recall a Parker's 2005 catalog where there were several batches of knives from defunct makers were offered for sale. These were assembled from parts that were "found." They were New Old Stock. They were assembled at the Solingen, Germany factory. I do not recall that they were stamped with the country of origin. Many were "old parts from US makers", so the country of origin would be the USA, assembled in Germany. They had about 3 pages of these knives offered for sale. Maybe someone out there still has a catalog and can fill us in with who the defunct manufacturers were. I thought that the country of origin had to be there only if it was for export, although I could be wrong.
I guess I should start keeping some of these catalogs.

[CarlM]

I was hoping it was USA or Germany. I bought this Kissing Crane from the same guy. It is stamped Solingen Germany. I have a weakness for yellow handle knives.

I feel quite strongly that these are modern reproductions, and were made for the Parkers in the Olbertz factory. However, I suppose they could have been made in China. I've had this one since 2001, I think, a bit before the influx of Chinese made slipjoints...but, you never know. I can only let everyone form their own opinion of why there is no further marking on the knives.

If you look closely, the top knife has a Bulldog Brand Crest (common) and the scales look like the Oystershell celluloid, also from Bulldog. It is different than "cracked Ice". The second knife has scales that look like Bulldog's Sapphire celluloid, kinda like Tortoise shell with some blue streaks or patterns in it. It looks like both were made in Solingen, Germany.

[9ball]

Maybe someone out there still has a catalog and can fill us in with who the defunct manufacturers were.

I will look and see, when Jim Parker passed on I stopped getting them like I did before.

9ball

[jonet143]

is it me or does anyone else see anything wrong with this practice. while some collectors will see these knives as repros, i believe some with less experience could buy thinking they are actually old knives. or am i missing something?

johnnie

[El Lobo]

SOME of the brands that were in the catalogs, or on eBay were...

New York Knife, Jack Knife Ben, Kinfolks, Simmons Hardware, David Everts, Ludwig Groten...sigh. An awful lot of "New...Old Stock" it seems.
Some were marked with country of origin...some, maybe not, IIRC.

I bought a few because I liked the knives. Others may have bought for different reasons.

Here are a couple that came with Certificates...

Bill

[sunburst]

Yeah that dumb someone being me Which is why I have a 3 bladed Kutmaster Trapper which I was told was from the 50's...What was left out was the fact that only the parts were from the 50's not the knife...


Sunburst

[9ball]

Sorry Folks,

Jim Parker passed November 2004, I got the Christmas 2004 catalog & Christmas 2005 catalog since then, that is all.

Bill, another is Keen Kutter.

Sunburst, Do not feel bad it happens to everybody sooner or later.


9ball

[Hukk]

is it me or does anyone else see anything wrong with this practice. while some collectors will see these knives as repros, i believe some with less experience could buy thinking they are actually old knives. or am i missing something?
johnnie

I certainly don't like it. I have to ask myself, "how can one company FIND so many NOS blades or parts." Are they really old parts, or are they newly made. Once a company is dead, let it be a part of knife history. The knives I saw from the 2005 catalog used curent celluloid scales, but whose to know? Carry one of these in your pocket for a year and someone will try to sell it as an original. As pa knives so aptly says, "learn to read the knife." If they find blades, then everything else is new. It's a bad practice that drives down knife prices overall, IMHO. Who knows, maybe they make everything from scratch, the handles are usually modern celluloid, but in 10 years, who will remember?

[CarlM]

Here is a Bulldog knife now on ebay that looks a lot like my kinfolks


http://cgi.ebay.com/Bulldog-knives-Pear ... otohosting
knife

i thought the country of origin had to be on the knife.

johnnie

I do recall a Parker's 2005 catalog where there were several batches of knives from defunct makers were offered for sale. These were assembled from parts that were "found." They were New Old Stock. They were assembled at the Solingen, Germany factory. I do not recall that they were stamped with the country of origin. Many were "old parts from US makers", so the country of origin would be the USA, assembled in Germany. They had about 3 pages of these knives offered for sale. Maybe someone out there still has a catalog and can fill us in with who the defunct manufacturers were. I thought that the country of origin had to be there only if it was for export, although I could be wrong.
I guess I should start keeping some of these catalogs.

[knifeaholic]

My understanding is that Parker scooped the trademark rights (which had expired) for Kinfolks and a number of other old brands. In the 1990's. he had knives made in Solingen by Olbertz with the Kinfolks stamp and with other old tang stamps. He also had Queen make several runs of Kinfolks marked knives during the same era. The two stockman patterns posted on the first couple posts here are Olbertz made versions. If you examine them closely you will see that they are identcal to the same stockman patterns in the current Bulldog line.

While the original Kinfolks made a lot of sheath knives, their pocket knives are VERY rare in my experience, other than the two blade folding hunter pattern #6292 which is somewhat common. I have no idea whether the original Kinfolks pocket knives were made by Kinfolks or on contract by another company....but the few that I have seen do not resemble Case knives at all.

Post WWII after the original Kinfolks company closed up, Robeson bought the trademark and used it primarily on hunting knives. Robeson offered a few (maybe 4) patterns of Kinfolks folders, but they had the trademark etched on the blade rather than tang stamped.

Now, Case has purchased the Kinfolks trademark back from Parkers.

[PA Knives]

Yes CASE did make the folders for Kinfolk, and the Tariffs in the late 1800's and early 1900's cuased the need for the country of orgin. BUT NOT ALL HAVE IT, if it does it tells you that it was made since the requirement, if it doesn't all it tells you as they didn't bother or it wasn't needed yet. Hope you get my drift hear.

Thanks gang

[knifeaholic]

PA Knives, just curious do you have documentation that Case made the Kinfolks folders? or do you have pics of any? I have seen a few of the original Kinfolks folders and they bore no resemblance at all to Case knives either in terms of tooling, general appearance, bone jigging and coloring, etc.

[CarlM]

You guys are great.
Best Regards,
Carl

[9ball]

This is the best I can do for now. I always photo cutlery when I acquire it for reference and save to my machine. Maybe you Folks can tell something from this. The one in the red circle.

It does not look like any Case jigging I have seen, but I am not a Case guy. It is bone and greenish, kinda slim feeling. I always look them over and it looked right and well made. I just remember it being almost 4 inches closed.
Once the humidity goes down, I will dig it out and post better photo's/images.

I started to put it on eBay once, but as I said I have never seen another and wanted others to compare. I may not have much of a reputation, but I want to keep what I have.

BTW: I think the pattern number on back of the master blade was #1306 or #1307.

The one that says FAKE has been worked on for sure. Those go to my special collection.
Sometimes, as I have said before: Some folks mix this stuff in groups just to move it.

Need to post some info on counterfeit leg knives I saw in town lately also.

I also heard/read Kinfolks straight razors were made by Case.

Big Day Tomorrow.......Good Night Folks,
9ball



*EDIT: I checked my notes this morning and that is 6317 tang stamp. Sorry for the mix-up.

[PA Knives]

HI!

OK knifeaholic has called me on the carpet on this one. I have a wierd sense of humor sometimes and this time it just went over the wire. Yes CASE made kinfolk knives. The owners were Case family members. Jean and Dean etc. I thought I was being funny but it didn't come out right. So CASE people made the knives, not the W.R. Case company. OK I don't get the joke of the year award this time.

The truth of the matter is that Kinfolks acutually made knives for the W.R. Case people. The CASE dynasty book refers to butcher knives and then Razors were made for CAT. It makes no mention if the pocket knives were made for CASE so it appears that they did not, but it does say that they made them for themselves and certainly as we all should know, they would have made them for other companies. no joke here folks, write this down 100 times.

"MOST COMPANIES NEVER MADE THE KNIVES THAT HAVE THEIR NAMES ON THEM"


Thanks for keeping me honest and maybe working on my materail a little. "it's all in the timing right?"