Blade Play in Custom Knife

[kootenay joe]

A few years ago, maybe 8 ? i bought 2 or 3 knives from Phil Tham, a custom knife maker in Texas. Although not well known he is an excellent knife maker, a person who has just 'got it' as far as knives go. His designs and sense of proportions create knives that you immediately say "Wow !". And his workmanship is as precise as it gets, yet his prices are lower than many other custom knife makers.
On top of this he is friendly and very pleasant to talk with over the phone.
One of the knives i bought from Phil is a 4 7/8" Sod Buster style knife which i like very much. When i received it i used it to slice a few things, carried it for a couple of days and then put it into a knife roll and stored it in my safe.
A few days ago i got it out thinking i'd like to carry it again. Upon opening the blade i find it has a noticeable amount of lateral blade play. I'm sure if it had this when i received it and used it (very lightly, no 'pressure' cuts) i would of noticed.
So: how is it possible for a knife to develop blade play while in storage for a few years ?
Second part of this thread is about trying to contact Phil. I sent him an email but have not heard back. This is unusual as Phil is a man with integrity who replies promptly.
In past years i visited his website ("ptartistry") many times, but now, regardless of browser, i am blocked from viewing it as it is deemed "highly unsafe".
Does anyone here know Phil or know how to contact him ? With Covid and the snowstorm disaster that hit Texas, i hope he is still with us.
And finally: if i gently squeeze the pivot pin in a small padded vise, is this a good way to remove the blade play ?
Thank you for the help.
kj

Edit to ad: just received notice that my email to Phil could not be delivered.
kj

[herbva]

Roland, that is indeed a very cool looking knife. I have used the "squeezing" technique you mentioned a few times on folders with conventional peened pivot pin heads a few times, and it worked as only a very temporary measure. In these cases, the pivot pin heads had "sunk in" below the surface of the bolster, and only repinning really solved the problem. In your pictures, I don't see any of that "sunken in" look, so I don't know if the squeezing technique would work at all, but it might be worth a try (using a vise with soft jaws). Your best bet is, of course, to somehow contact Phil, and let him repair the knife. Gook luck!

[kootenay joe]

Thanks Herb. I'm hoping someone here knows Phil and will give me is current contact info. If no luck in finding Phil then i'll try a gentle squeeze.
Have you ever had a knife that developed blade play while in storage ? I don't see how it's possible but it is what seems to have happened.
kj

[herbva]

Thanks Herb. I'm hoping someone here knows Phil and will give me is current contact info. If no luck in finding Phil then i'll try a gentle squeeze.
Have you ever had a knife that developed blade play while in storage ? I don't see how it's possible but it is what seems to have happened.
kj

Roland, I also don't see how that's possible on a new knife like yours. But, I must confess that I don't know how the pivot on that particular knife is assembled. For it to develop play while in storage means that the pivot pin to frame connection somehow has loosened up. On older knives when you peen the new pin heads down, that creates inward pressure holding everything together properly. If the hole for the pin isn't tapered properly before peening, the pressure I mentioned will eventually cause the pin head to sink into the bolster, causing the "sunken head " look I mentioned. But, I suspect that is all irrelevant with you knife. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[deo-pa]

Interesting. Sure seems unlikely that noticeable play would develop in a properly stored knife. I think the most probable explanation is illustrated below.

Here is an old BF post on how different folks tackled the problem. Kind of humorous actually... everything from vises to hammers to Loctite to accidentally dropping it on the ground to "the book technique." https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/eas ... ie.687098/.

Dennis

[Madmarco]

Roland! I am by no means an expert regarding pivot pins, but, in the bottom picture the bottom side pin appears to be sitting a bit proud compared to the pin on top, not as flush with the cover so to speak, so a gentle squeeze in a vise might just tighten it up. As mentioned above, soft jaws and perhaps wrap it in a cloth as well. Best of luck with it!

[ea42]

Roland I don't think squeezing that knife in a vise will accomplish anything but damage it. In order to properly tighten a pivot pin it either needs to be flared by peening or compressed somehow. Compression, if you could even accomplish it evenly without bending the pin would fatten the pin causing other issues. That knife appears to be constructed with a stainless birdseye washer which would also have a matching stainless pin. Those pins are far harder than nickel silver so trying to compress it in a vise will do nothing but bend it in all likelihood. The force required would be much more than a light squeeze and you would most likely bind up the blade in the process. If by chance he used a bushing in the tang that's just a hair larger than the tang's thickness then squeezing won't do anything either as you'll be up against the bushing, but you'll still likely pop the pin.
I doubt very much that there was any shrinkage involved with those hafts and it looks like the pin is still perfectly flush with the birdseye washer so the most probable scenario is that the pin may have been a bit sideways when it was peened and by opening and closing the knife a number of times you may have straightened the pin or bolster alignment out a bit making that space ever so slightly larger. Is it really super noticeable or is it just a very slight wobble? If it's the latter you might be better off just leaving it as is. It doesn't affect the performance of the knife at all. If it's really bad the only real fix would be to peen the pin and hope that the accompanying grinding of the birdseye to remove the hammer marks doesn't remove whatever's left of the pin heads. If the problem is a too big bushing the knife would have to be dis-assembled.

Eric

p.s. - From what I can gather it appears that Phil's website no longer exists. He also hasn't posted on BF since around 2017.

[glennbad]

Eric seems to have beat me to it a bit...

Today's custom makers typically use either phosphor bronze washers or bearing sleeves. Probably the bearing sleeves more than the washers. The sleeves sit inside the blade pivot hole, and are a few thousandths wider than the blade, so the blade doesn't encounter any friction against the liners. Also, the liners are typically relieved around the pivot area to reduce or eliminate friction. That looks like a type of birdseye pivot on your knife. If the knife has the phosphor bronze sleeve construction, then the pivot pin can be hammered as hard as can be and it won't affect the action.

Of course, if the knife is not made using that technique, then disregard everything I said. Regardless off all that, those materials used in that knife do not appear to be the type that would shrink over time, so your blade play issue is odd.

[kootenay joe]

Thank you all for your helpful and educational reply.
As to how much blade play, if i hold the handle in one hand and blade in the other, moving the blade side to side makes for movement i can feel and a 'rattling' sound as the blade tang bumps against the liners. It is totally usable and the play is not noticeable when i cut through thin green twigs.
The liners have been mill relieved in the tang area.
Based on your solid advice i will not attempt any squeezing of the pivot area.
I will continue with my plan to carry and use it. If the play increases then i will need to send it to a knife maker for re-pinning.
I have not been able to contact Phil Tham. I hope he is o.k. He is a relatively 'young' man and his workshop pictures showed a well set up clean modern shop. He made many types of fixed blades & folders all of which looked to be of the highest quality.
kj

[Froe]

Play or not, that’s a fine looking knife.
Froe

[kootenay joe]

I got 2 phone numbers for Phil Tham in Bryan Texas, neither is still active.
If you find any info about Phil or how to contact him please post it.
kj

[olderdogs1]

Have you tried oiling it?

Tom