a little more help

[jonet143]

this is a ka-bar canoe i aquired. the tang reads KA-BAR over OLEAN, N.Y. with a pattern #12201on the reverse. on the secondary blade is the crescent with UCC inside. 3 5/8" closed. very thick spring and main blade, while the smaller blade is thinner with a spacer incorporated in the brass liner. snaps like a gorilla.

anybody got anything on this one?

thanks, johnnie

[knifeaholic]

Vintage late 70's or later, made by Queen for KABAR, probably for the KABAR collectors club.

[jonet143]

cool, it's a very well made knife. queen makes a lot of reproductions. i have robeson large congress made by queen. has robeson markings on 3 blades and queen on 1 blade. it's a well made knife.

thanks for the input.

[PA Knives]

HI!

At first reading I was going to say that this mark was from the the Union Cutlery Company UCC, of course this was the name of Kabar until 1951 I believe. That is when it was officially changed to kabar. But upon looking at your photo I beleive that it is the stamp of a collectors club. The crescent would have had nothing to do with Union or Kabar. Just my opinion though.

Thanks

[jonet143]

to my understanding KA-BAR was used as a stamping from about 1919 by union cutlery. they dropped the dash around 1951 when they changed the company name to kabar
i don't know about the crescent but i have seen it used on an old union cutlery knife as a shield.
johnnie

[PA Knives]

HI!

maybe on a shield but never on the stamp to my knowledge. I in am in the middle of a very indepth investagation of this period in Unions history.

Thanks. If you learn more please tell me.

[jonet143]

i have tried to find a ka-bar collectors club with no success. perhaps one of the members can point me to one.

i appreciate your help. it is nice to know about the origins of our knives.

if it is a reproduction it should have some indicator, like queen does on their work.

from what i have read ka-bar with a dash is pre 1951, the dash being removed when they changed their name from union cutleryto kabar.

i'll keep digging.

johnnie

[El Lobo]

Looking at the history on the KA-BAR website, it appears that the KA-BAR Collectors Club was started in 1975, but most likely abandoned when ALCAS bought the brand in 1996, as they don't seem to be big on collectables.

There was a stag canoe produced in 1979, as one of several club knives that year...well, actually there were 915 of them, according to Levine's Guide... and that jibes with Mr. knifeaholic's opinion.
Don't know if that is what your knife is...but maybe? Are those blades polished on both sides? Maybe like a special touch, for a collector's piece?

Bill

EDIT: Clarification.....
There were 6 different club knives in 1979...915 of the stag canoes were produced.

[jonet143]

hey bill, yes the blades are polished on both sides. i'm so used to case knives, that did'nt seem odd. if the knife is old or relativly new does not matter. i collect for the enjoyment and appreciation of real craftmanship. i would like to know if the knife is a ka-bar or reproduction. if it was a club knife, i'll be more than satisfied.
thanks for your input.

johnnie

[El Lobo]

Johnnie,

Since I thought you mentioned Houston Price's book, you can double check me here, but I don't even see a Canoe pattern listed with the regular KA-Bar patterns. Of course, not everything is in books, we've all learned that.

I will also say, after watching knifeaholic on the forums for a couple of years, that he is pretty doggone good at the knives he chooses to chime in about.....as is PA.

I'd say you might try contacting KA-BAR...

https://www.kabar.com/contact.jsp

Maybe someone has some pictures of Club knives to check it against. Or attach your picture, especially showing the crescent. Maybe a long shot...but maybe not.

Good Luck,

Bill

[jonet143]

i agree. it is probably a club knife.

i sent pictures and questions twice to kabar with no answer. apparently they're more interested in their current business than in their past.

i don't think i mentioned that the pattern # 12201 is engraved, not stamped. maybe that is a clue?

i do appreciate the research ya'll are doing for me. i have exausted all my resources and now am trying to id the knifes provenence through this forum. it'd a great help having all of this combined knowledge.

johnnie

[knifeaholic]

The way I read a knife like this, first, it does not have the "look" of an older knife circa 1920's to 1930's. I do not know whether Kabar made standard size two blade canoes like this in that era, they did make the big 3 blade gunboat - but in any case it does not have the blade grinds, blade finishes, or overall character of an older knife.

Second, I have never seen that shield on a 1920's to 1930's Kabar knife - yes they did use a shield with the KA-BAR logo, but it did not look like that.

Third, I know for a fact that Queen made a lot of "club" knives for KABAR circa late 70's to 90's. Many of these were not numbered and were just special offers to club members. This knife has the appearance, tooling-wise, of the Queen canoe pattern from the 70's and 80's.

[jonet143]

i beleive you are right. reading the knife, it does not feel like a knife from the 30s, i figured it to be 70s or later. i wonder if queen would have records of contract knives. at any rate thanks for the info, i know more about the knife than i did.

[El Lobo]

Hold on...

We might get some additional input from BRL. We'll see.

Bill

[jonet143]

thanks, mr. levine pretty much confirmed knifeaholic and pa knives call. probably a 1979 club knife. thanks to all.

johnnie