Practicum knife with removable corkscrew

ijhunter · Post by **ijhunter** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:58 am

Any info appreciated.Knife comes apart into 6 pieces when corkscrew is removed.Pieces are numbered and variously marked "Practicum" "patente" and "DRUA"
See parts at: http://www.bullworks.net/virtual/photos/hunter.jpg
where I tried to get some info from the corkscrew experts
Thanks

ijhunter · Post by **ijhunter** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:32 pm

No replies! My knife is either completely uninteresting or no-one knows what it is..Or both! Could someone tell me which!

By the way I've been told by corkscrew experts that it's German from the inscription but they expect it to be "DRGM" not "DRUA".They couldn't tell me anything else

4ever3 · Post by **4ever3** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:52 pm

I dont know what it is...Sorry

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:16 pm

OK, I'll take a swing.

It would help to see a picture of the knife together, especially with implements open...and you didn't mention the length closed.

To me, the fact that the corkscrew can be removed would seem irrelevant, as it is pretty useless without the leverage of the handle. However, it may be designed to come apart for cleaning, like a picnic style knife for bread, cheese, and wine.
Levine's Guide to Knives (I have #4) shows many knives with blades and corkscrews...maybe with another picture we can find something similar

...or, maybe not.

DRGM means German Empire Utility Design...much like our patent mark. It does not seem to be marked for export, (does it say Germany [the English word] anywhere?), but more like a product for local use.

This is JMO from what you've told/shown us so far.

Bill

P. S.
You might also try posting this under European Knives...in case some folks only check that forum.

ijhunter · Post by **ijhunter** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:08 pm

Thanks Bill.
Knife length is 3 inches closed.No "Germany" marking.I'll try to attach a few pictures.
Ian

ijhunter · Post by **ijhunter** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:28 pm

And one more picture with corkscrew closed.When you try to close the corkscrew on the other side it all,as intended, comes apart into 6 pieces.

Click on pictures for close ups.

Look forward to any more thoughts

Ian

PA Knives · Post by **PA Knives** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:42 pm

HI!

This is truly one for Bernard as it is very interesting. I find the design to be unique the way it comes apart. I would be interested in the dating of this knife as I wonder if it was prior to or after the others of similar workings. Many people think that a take apart knife is something somewhat new. This tells me that it is far from that case. You have a nice piece there with some real great history to report. Please keep us informed.

Don Luis · Post by **Don Luis** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:26 pm

Interesting how similar it is to Schrade's "Keyhole" construction.

Luis

ilikeknives · Post by **ilikeknives** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:32 am

Here's my three and a half cents. I just found out recently that there are groups, many of them in Austrailia, that collect exclusively, knives with, and just plain old corkscrews. Perhaps a Google search may find a forum or group w/ more info??
OK, two and a half.
I'm tired,,,-Glenn

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:10 pm

Very interesting corkscrew knife. I have not seen one quite like this before. There are sets where the corkscrew is one of many interchangebale attachments that can be swapped in and out. Have not seen one where the whole knife comes apart. I will look into it. However, if Don Bull has not provided any help, then I don't know that I will be able to. Good luck

s-k

What does the tang stamp say?

added: patente is patent in Spanish or Portugese

I am confused. The Praktikum and Practicum are obvioulsy spelled differently on the different parts. Praktikum in German means practical course. Given the ease with which the knife come apart and the numbering of the parts, I hypothesize that it was designed to educate the user re the parts and construction of a knife. Required material for knife building 101 students. Perhaps made in Spain/South America for the German speaking market. That's the best I have for now.

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:29 am

Link to corkscrew I mentioned in previous posting. There should be an entire set of tool attachments along with the corkscrew in a fold-up pouch.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-CORKSCREW ... dZViewItem

ijhunter · Post by **ijhunter** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:27 pm

Thanks s-k.

I like your suggestion that it was an instructional piece based on the German meaning of "praktikum" and why else would you make a corkscrew which came apart and number each part.I'd seen the German meaning searching on Google but hadn't thought it through.I was looking for a brand name!

I also hadn't focused on the C/K spelling difference or the non-German "patente" (which could also be French I guess).

The base of the large blade reads "D.R.U.A. PATENTE.A." This can be seen by clicking on the photo to enlarge.The large blade is also marked"4".The same inscription "D.R.U.A. PATENTE.A." is also on the thin support bar which is also marked"2".DR is bigger than UA.

The "A" at the end of "PATENTE" may be intended to signifiy that a patent had been applied for.I just read in Ferd. Peter's book on German patented corkscrews that the usual marking is "D.R.P.-A." in the six months it took between application and grant of a German patent.On approval the "A" was dropped.

The unusual or incorrect patent lettering tends to support your suggestion that it was made outside Germany for a German market.However its well made(the corkscrew is a nicely grooved or "cyphered" worm), and looks and feels German to me.Germany was madly patenting, and also registering designs ("D.R.G.M.) of, many corkscrews and penknives with corkscrews at that time (which I estimate to be about 1900).Making these items for export to a German market at that time would have been would have been unusual (selling ice to eskimos?).Also I don't think the Spanish or South Americans could have made it (have you ever seen an Argentinian worm? Awfully rough).But the French could have.

I've have also asked Ferd.Peters who replied he'd seen another the same but couldn't identify it.In October some serious corkscrew people will visit Sydney where I live for the annual meeting of the Canadian Corkscrew Collectors Club the largest collector group.(Some,not me, will also attend the rather more exclusive meeting of the International Correspondence of Corkscrew Addicts.I kid you not!).I hope to find out more about my knife then.

Thanks again s-k.Unfortunately if it's an instructional use prototype as you suggest I suspect it may not be as valuable as if it were a rare patented production piece.I'm not much good on values. But I like it anyway!

Any more ideas in knifeland? The "D.R.U.A." remains a complete mystery.

Ian

The

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Hi, an interesting mystery. Definitely not French as the French word for patent is brevette. I'm not an expert on languages, but Patente is definitely Spanish or Portugese. Boker made knives in Argentina, cheaper labour and/or materials so not that far fetched, although I have no evidence in this case. The worm could be made elsewhere. Given the ease at which it all comes apart, generally not a dersirable trait in any tool, and the distinct numbering of the parts, I am sticking with my original hypothesis. That does not preclude it from being a rare and potentially valuable knife. What do you think the blades and case are made from? That might help date it.

s-k

ijhunter · Post by **ijhunter** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:17 pm

Yep s-f.. point taken.Patente in french just means licence(d).

The Boker idea also intriguing.and accept your point that screw could be made elsewhere.

I'm not much good on metals(or much else...).Case and blades definitely iron.Blades I think just polished steel.Case I think is stainless steel???Not what I associate with plated.It's a nice mellow polished finish on the outside(with a little corrosion on the front).Seems more a matt finish inside case. Magnet grips on very firmly...see what I mean I don't know much.

Ian

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:41 pm

Hi. It is a great mystery. The stainless steel question is just really one of dating it pre or post 1920ish. I don't have anything else to add. maybe someone else can help.

ijhunter · Post by **ijhunter** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:09 pm

To wrap up Smiling-Knife who was so helpful..This knife was examined by corkscrew collectors at their international meeting in Sydney yesterday.No-one had seen the knife or the insciption on it before but a German collector identified it as clearly German.The printing "D.R.u.a. PATENTE.A." were identified as "German and other patents applied for".Patente is apparently the plural of patent in German and "u.a." stands for "und ander..." meaning "and other"(his wife contributed this bit).Smiling-knife's conclusion that it was a knife for teaching about knife construction in a demonstration class("pracktikum" in German,'"practicum " in Engish) was generally accepted.The German collector is writing a paper on the knife for the German corkscrew club.
Thanks Smiling-knife.

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:44 am

You're very welcome Ian. Glad to be of help. Maybe the paper will spark some further information to support/refute my hypothesis.

Are you a corkscrew collector? I dabble in the area of corkscrew collecting too and have one that I have not been able to identify. I have a few books but not many so I can't say my research is exhaustive. I emailed Don Bull and another chap here in England about it a few months ago but received no reply as of yet. Maybe you will know something about it. I can post a pic or send you an email if you are interested. Is there a similar site to this one for corkscrew collectors?

s-k

ijhunter · Post by **ijhunter** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:19 pm

Smiling-knife,Please post corkscrew picture and,if possible,email to me [email protected] You are lucky to live very near some real experts:eg: :http://www.sykes-corkscrews.co.uk/ is the website for a great shop specialising in corkscrews and other wine antiques in Woburn.Ask for Sally!!

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:25 pm

Thanks for the info Ian. I signed-up for the Sykes catalogue. Please check your personal messages for my corkscrew pics. Thanks in advance

s-k

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