Another View of Old time Cutlery Workers

[deo-pa]

A while back I did a forum post on how I combine my interests in knife and stamp collecting by finding envelopes (called covers) with knife-related themes (link = viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66525&p=810107#p810107). That post showed some French covers with a stamp commemorating the cutlery history of the city of Thiers. That post also commented on how in France the old time cutlery workers worked in the prone position, in contrast to the sitting position we see in most old U.S. and Sheffield photos.

I recently obtained the postcard shown below from a collector in Germany. It is posted with the same French stamp commemorating Thiers I described previously. The postcard shows what I presume to be an old etching with yet another view of a prone cutlery worker. Based on his attire, it looks like the etching might have been from the 17th or 18th Century. Note that the stamp itself also depicts the worker in the prone position.

Finally, I stumbled on the attached photo of a knife factory recently. It shows more prone workers apparently doing blade shaping or sharpening. (Plus two fellows sitting and another kneeling but it's not clear what they are doing.) I have no idea of the country where this photo was taken but the attire marks it as probably early 20th Century.

As I noted before, finding such covers or postcards is a nice way to tie the hobbies together.

Dennis

[Mumbleypeg]

Looks like that position would be really hard on the shoulders and neck, without some kind of support for the head.

As for the Frenchman kneeling, might just be taking a break from that torturous looking prone position. I really can’t see how one could sustain that position for long without support for the head.

Ken

[LongBlade]

Very cool Dennis .. Here's a couple of other photos I found awhile back of cutlers in Theirs working in a prone position (which I understand was easier on their backs)... I quite enjoy seeing the dogs laying across their legs - this was done to keep the cutlers warm ...

[kennedy knives]

Thanks for sharing looks like it would have been rough on the Lungs with all the Dust

[edge213]

Great pictures

[Beavertail]

Thanks for sharing looks like it would have been rough on the Lungs with all the Dust

That's probably why the average lifespan back then was about 45.

[Dinadan]

Thanks for sharing that historical information, Dennis and Lee. Those are some very interesting images. That certainly looks like an uncomfortable way to work, but I have never tried it, maybe it is ergonomic. I am wondering if the position is due to having the drive shaft for the grinders under the floor?

I especially like the dogs in the photos that Lee posted. I guess the dogs would keep the rats out of the work area as well as keeping the workers warm. How about that last photo, where one fellow seems to be taking a nap snuggled up against his dog, with the two men behind him sharing a bottle of red wine. I tried to enhance that part, without much success.

[Waukonda]

Thank you Dennis and Lee, great info and photos.

[LongBlade]

Thanks for sharing that historical information, Dennis and Lee. Those are some very interesting images. That certainly looks like an uncomfortable way to work, but I have never tried it, maybe it is ergonomic. I am wondering if the position is due to having the drive shaft for the grinders under the floor?

I especially like the dogs in the last two photos that Lee posted. I guess the dogs would keep the rats out of the work area. How about that last photo, where one fellow seems to be taking a nap snuggled up against his dog, with the two men behind him sharing a bottle of red wine. I tried to enhance that part, without much success.

My pleasure all ) ..

Mel - Interestingly when I found these photos there was some explanation and the dogs went to work with their owners to keep them warm by laying on the back of their legs - but as you say I am sure if they were "ratters" (like many dogs and especially terriers) the rodent population was kept in check but the cutlers probably had cold legs when they were on the chase ... No doubt the photo you noted looked like a rough working environment and I am sure many were hitting the bottle of wine given the conditions - I wonder if it was particularly cold in those rooms if they opened the windows so the dust would vent...

[OLDE CUTLER]

Can you imagine the millennials of today taking a job like that? Wow, that would be something to work an 8, 10, 12, or even longer shift in that position!

[Lansky1]

Thanks for posting - extremely interesting

[dlr110]

Those are some great pictures, thanks for sharing.
This puts a whole new perspective on the term "lying down on the job."

[bladecollectorr]

I recall reading an old newspaper article about a workplace death that occurred when this type of wheel shattered. My recollection is the article went on to say that it happened often enough and that this was very hazardous work. I am trying to find it and I'll add it if I do.

This pics also remind me of an Edge Mark knife I see when I'm searching for pearl knives. It has an etch that shows what was on the other end of the belt in 1600. That job looks even less fun.

[RobesonsRme.com]

Too bad no one came up with inflatable rubber balls upon which to sit and, of course face masks.

You have no idea how many iterations of that sentence I went through so you guys wouldn't make jokes.

Charlie

[deo-pa]

You have no idea how many iterations of that sentence I went through...

Quite a few I'm sure Charlie!

Dennis

[ken98k]

In some of the photos the people appear to be wearing wooden shoes.

[danno50]

Great old historical photos. Thanks for posting them Dennis and Lee.

[cody6268]

In some of the photos the people appear to be wearing wooden shoes.

I know this is sort of off-topic, but as I was reading all the safety standards and the like replacing my worn-out farmwork Muck boots, I happened upon this.

Interestingly enough, certain kinds of wooden shoes are compliant with current ISO safety standards, and in some situations are considered better than modern workboots. I personally would prefer my modern Ariat workboots with slip-resistant tread, and cushion insoles. Honestly, I think I probably could not wear wooden clogs for more than a few minutes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klomp

[petesknives]

That's what the wine was for, to ease the pain of wearing the wooden shoes

Ken

[just bob]

In some of the photos the people appear to be wearing wooden shoes.

Look at the wooden shoes in this pic. I think they're a type of overshoe?

[ken98k]

In some of the photos the people appear to be wearing wooden shoes.

Look at the wooden shoes in this pic. I think they're a type of overshoe?

Sort of looks that way.

[bladeguy58]

Very cool Dennis .. Here's a couple of other photos I found awhile back of cutlers in Theirs working in a prone position (which I understand was easier on their backs)... I quite enjoy seeing the dogs laying across their legs - this was done to keep the cutlers warm ...


French Cutler.jpg

Theirs Cutlery.jpg

Thiers France Cutlers IMG_8567.JPG

Dennis and Lee,
Thank you for sharing these wonderful pieces of cutlery history! I can't imagine working in that position for very long but I'll bet these guys had abs of steel! I would love to be able to get some originals of these! Thanks for sharing.
Richard

[RobesonsRme.com]

Wooden clogs are very comfortable for those standing in one place for long periods of time.

A lot of surgeons and surgical personnel wear them.

Charlie